Sorry Beeryspice but I am afraid this "The 5 year permanent residency has nothing to do with health care - only your residenza entitlements." is not correct. It is only once you have your "attestazione di soggiorno permanente" after living here for 5 years (not residency for 5 years - subtle difference) that you are entitled to equal treatment as an Italian within the SSN. Until then, there are various different levels of cover depending upon whether you are in receipt of the state pension in the UK or have paid NI contributions in the UK for the 2 years before you moved here. The law changed in 2007 unfortunately. I can point you to lots of documents explaining it all in great detail in the Marche Healthcare group.
I also agree with beeryspice. I have several friends who have gone the legal route and despite being completely "in the right" have lost the case and ended up having to fork out an awful lot more than the original request. Not to mention the stress involved. It is not right and doesn't sit comfortably with our British sense of fairplay but this is Italy. You know no-one and the geometra will have all sorts of contacts which may well include the police and judiciary. Personally, I would stay on friendly terms with the geometra (although if he has put a padlock on your property you may be past that point already!) and try to resolve something between you, with the help of a third party. You would spend more than 6,000 on a lawyer with no guarantee you would win your case.
Are you referring to Italian CGT? If so, it is 20% on the profit made but remember this will be the difference between the declared prices in the original purchase deed and the sale deed (less any invoiced, deductable expenses - e.g. estate agent, notary, renovations etc.) If it is your prima casa and you lived in it for more than 2 1/2 years (ie more than 50% of the 5 years) then no CGT is payable. The buying another property within 12 months part refers to you losing your rights to prima casa benefit and having to pay back any reduction in purchase tax you received on the property when you bought it.
I'm afraid having just been through a very similar situation, it is nigh on impossible to prove the contribution you made wasn't a gift and therefore not a loan requiring repayment. If you want to be protected, you need to have your name on the deed for the %age you contribute. Anything else is too risky.
I asked this in relation to getting married in Italy recently. In England we are all married with the equivalent of Comunione dei Beni (even though we don't "choose" it or have a choice). In Italy, a UK married couple (or even a couple married under one regime in Italy) can choose to purchase under the other regime so long as both parties sign to agree to it. Some notaries don't necessarily know how it works in the UK and so ask you.
Don't worry Anne, I can take money out of all the cashpoints now with a UK cashcard and can draw an unlimited amount over the counter using a debit card in BCC. You'll be fine.
I don't know what the child participation rate in sport is, but only 3% of adults regularly participate in sport which is shockingly low compared with the UK and a bit of a problem if you're trying to run an oudoor activity business like us. When I went for a gym induction here, the instructor kept telling me to "do 10 of these then rest for 10 minutes". I was getting very bored by the time I got to the end. It was so I didn't sweat, apprently. The ladies around here "don't do" sweating!! In fact all they did seem to do was come to the gym, walk on the treadmill and then do some strange stretching exercises with a broom handle - not a bead of sweat in sight. I have to say the healthcare I have received in Marche has been excellent (despite the issues here with actually getting the cover in the first place). Far, far superior to that I receieved in the UK. In fact Italy's health care is rated no. 2 in the world by the WHO. I do read in the Italian newspapers that healthcare in the South of Italy isn't of the same high standard but I can't comment from personal experience. One of the things that the parents say a lot is their kids don't want to get their hand dirty. Now this may be a bit of parental moaning but we were talking to our plumber about it the other day and I asked him if his son would be taking over his busy plumbing business and he laughed and said "no way - he doesn't want to do anything. He's at college studying tourism but doesn't want to get his hands dirty". Many people have said this to us so it makes us wonder what will happen in the future to all the local small businesses, especially the farming industry as we see no young people working there at all. It is all the older generations. There was an article in the local paper saying that Italy could become a nation of solar panel farmers as so many fields of them are springing up everywhere and taking over from agriculture.
Can I recommend an excellent book - The Italians - which even though it was written in the 60's is just as valid today. I think the differences depend very much on where you live. We live in rural central Italy and doors are still left unlocked and street crime is non-existent. Having said that our nearest town (pop. approx 50,000) has it's fair share of drug problems and an horrendous graffiti problem which is very sad to see when it is such a beautiful town. The changes we have noticed in the last 6/7 years is an increase in street hawkers (particularly bad at the beach resorts) and a general increase in grafitti and litter. Nothing serious but certainly anti-social. We have noticed that the litter problem seems to get better the further North you go so maybe it is a regional thing. I lived here by myself for a while and whilst I generally felt safe, I had several incidents of local men (almost all married) thinking I was fair game and turning up late at night with bottles of wine asking to come in! It made me feel quite uncomfortable at the time although it was never a "serious" situation, although it does make me laugh to see the same men looking very sheepish when I now see them in town with my husband. I always make a point of saying hello to them and they can never cathc my eye. I asked an Italian friend about it and she said they only did it because I would have appeared to have no-one to stick up for me. If I'd had family here (or obviously a husband or boyfriend) it would never have happened. There is no question in my mind that it is generally a "safer" place to live if that is what your posting was referring to but Italy is also getting a bigger problem with young people binge drinking. It is often reported in the newspapers and I see it here (in our town of 4,500) with a group of 10-13 year-olds who hang around on the street, drinking and causing a lot of noise, mess and grafitti, so I don't know what the future holds. It makes me feel a bit sad to see it as in general the teenagers here are really lovely and well-behaved. We live next door to a youth club so we get to see a lot of them!
Comments posted
Sorry Beeryspice but I am afraid this "The 5 year permanent residency has nothing to do with health care - only your residenza entitlements." is not correct. It is only once you have your "attestazione di soggiorno permanente" after living here for 5 years (not residency for 5 years - subtle difference) that you are entitled to equal treatment as an Italian within the SSN. Until then, there are various different levels of cover depending upon whether you are in receipt of the state pension in the UK or have paid NI contributions in the UK for the 2 years before you moved here. The law changed in 2007 unfortunately. I can point you to lots of documents explaining it all in great detail in the Marche Healthcare group.
Happily come and have a look. PM me if you are interested.
I also agree with beeryspice. I have several friends who have gone the legal route and despite being completely "in the right" have lost the case and ended up having to fork out an awful lot more than the original request. Not to mention the stress involved. It is not right and doesn't sit comfortably with our British sense of fairplay but this is Italy. You know no-one and the geometra will have all sorts of contacts which may well include the police and judiciary. Personally, I would stay on friendly terms with the geometra (although if he has put a padlock on your property you may be past that point already!) and try to resolve something between you, with the help of a third party. You would spend more than 6,000 on a lawyer with no guarantee you would win your case.
Are you referring to Italian CGT? If so, it is 20% on the profit made but remember this will be the difference between the declared prices in the original purchase deed and the sale deed (less any invoiced, deductable expenses - e.g. estate agent, notary, renovations etc.) If it is your prima casa and you lived in it for more than 2 1/2 years (ie more than 50% of the 5 years) then no CGT is payable. The buying another property within 12 months part refers to you losing your rights to prima casa benefit and having to pay back any reduction in purchase tax you received on the property when you bought it.
I'm afraid having just been through a very similar situation, it is nigh on impossible to prove the contribution you made wasn't a gift and therefore not a loan requiring repayment. If you want to be protected, you need to have your name on the deed for the %age you contribute. Anything else is too risky.
I asked this in relation to getting married in Italy recently. In England we are all married with the equivalent of Comunione dei Beni (even though we don't "choose" it or have a choice). In Italy, a UK married couple (or even a couple married under one regime in Italy) can choose to purchase under the other regime so long as both parties sign to agree to it. Some notaries don't necessarily know how it works in the UK and so ask you.
Ha ha - didn't say I had unlimited amounts
Don't worry Anne, I can take money out of all the cashpoints now with a UK cashcard and can draw an unlimited amount over the counter using a debit card in BCC. You'll be fine.
I don't know what the child participation rate in sport is, but only 3% of adults regularly participate in sport which is shockingly low compared with the UK and a bit of a problem if you're trying to run an oudoor activity business like us. When I went for a gym induction here, the instructor kept telling me to "do 10 of these then rest for 10 minutes". I was getting very bored by the time I got to the end. It was so I didn't sweat, apprently. The ladies around here "don't do" sweating!! In fact all they did seem to do was come to the gym, walk on the treadmill and then do some strange stretching exercises with a broom handle - not a bead of sweat in sight. I have to say the healthcare I have received in Marche has been excellent (despite the issues here with actually getting the cover in the first place). Far, far superior to that I receieved in the UK. In fact Italy's health care is rated no. 2 in the world by the WHO. I do read in the Italian newspapers that healthcare in the South of Italy isn't of the same high standard but I can't comment from personal experience. One of the things that the parents say a lot is their kids don't want to get their hand dirty. Now this may be a bit of parental moaning but we were talking to our plumber about it the other day and I asked him if his son would be taking over his busy plumbing business and he laughed and said "no way - he doesn't want to do anything. He's at college studying tourism but doesn't want to get his hands dirty". Many people have said this to us so it makes us wonder what will happen in the future to all the local small businesses, especially the farming industry as we see no young people working there at all. It is all the older generations. There was an article in the local paper saying that Italy could become a nation of solar panel farmers as so many fields of them are springing up everywhere and taking over from agriculture.
Can I recommend an excellent book - The Italians - which even though it was written in the 60's is just as valid today. I think the differences depend very much on where you live. We live in rural central Italy and doors are still left unlocked and street crime is non-existent. Having said that our nearest town (pop. approx 50,000) has it's fair share of drug problems and an horrendous graffiti problem which is very sad to see when it is such a beautiful town. The changes we have noticed in the last 6/7 years is an increase in street hawkers (particularly bad at the beach resorts) and a general increase in grafitti and litter. Nothing serious but certainly anti-social. We have noticed that the litter problem seems to get better the further North you go so maybe it is a regional thing. I lived here by myself for a while and whilst I generally felt safe, I had several incidents of local men (almost all married) thinking I was fair game and turning up late at night with bottles of wine asking to come in! It made me feel quite uncomfortable at the time although it was never a "serious" situation, although it does make me laugh to see the same men looking very sheepish when I now see them in town with my husband. I always make a point of saying hello to them and they can never cathc my eye. I asked an Italian friend about it and she said they only did it because I would have appeared to have no-one to stick up for me. If I'd had family here (or obviously a husband or boyfriend) it would never have happened. There is no question in my mind that it is generally a "safer" place to live if that is what your posting was referring to but Italy is also getting a bigger problem with young people binge drinking. It is often reported in the newspapers and I see it here (in our town of 4,500) with a group of 10-13 year-olds who hang around on the street, drinking and causing a lot of noise, mess and grafitti, so I don't know what the future holds. It makes me feel a bit sad to see it as in general the teenagers here are really lovely and well-behaved. We live next door to a youth club so we get to see a lot of them!