2013 ...IMU .... IMU ... IMU - SECONDA CASA

Me too! Anyone care to elucidate?

As of today - and it wont last - there will be no prima casa bill to pay in June.  Second homes remain as before  at the moment

Absolute insanity! Each Comune in Italy needs that source of income. All in favour for paying a higher rate than "prima casa" and for special discounts for pensioners and low income families, but everybody should pay property taxes as they are a source of funding for local council.

Our IMU rocketed over around 3 fold (compared to ICI ) for a very rustic casa, (secondo) all around I see houses for sale. The problem is few people can  scrape together enough to pay the tax on often very rudimentary second homes. This is a big shot in the foot for Italy.

For once I agree with Gala. Prima Casa rates are stupidly low (we paid €35 last year) and Comunes are struggling to make ends meet and local services are suffering greatly as a result. Regarding owning a second home, well if you can't afford to keep it sell it; and I know that is a near impossible task in rural areas, but if you use it and want the benefit you have to pay. We have neigbours who own a smallish second home and it only cost them €575 last year not a great amount in the scheme of things; but like all Italians paying any taxes cuts to the heart.

Wow, I also fully agree with Flip! And I must add that the Italian IMU is not that high when you compare it with the local taxes that you pay in France or even some Spanish areas. Even if those taxes have been triplicated, they are still quite reasonable. As I said before, I would make special concessions, in the case of "prima casa" for low income families and pensioners, but EVERYONE should pay some amount to ensure that local Council will be able to provide those services and works that we would like to see and which many demand without thinking that those cost money and that we are the ones who should help to raise it. Flip, I think that we should meet in the future. I will be in Bagni as from this Sunday and staying until the end of June. Many mornings, at around 10:30, my husband and I are having coffee at Il Monaco at Ponte a Serraglio accompanied by our small black and white dog. Come along and we will buy you coffee and a delicious "sfoglia". Or drop me a line through a PM. I don't bite. Neither does our dog...

Flip, I think that we should meet in the future. I will be in Bagni as from this Sunday and staying until the end of June. Many mornings, at around 10:30, my husband and I are having coffee at Il Monaco at Ponte a Serraglio accompanied by our small black and white dog. Come along and we will buy you coffee and a delicious "sfoglia". Or drop me a line through a PM. I don't bite. Neither does our dog...   is it wise to publish such information?

Awwwwwwww isn't that nice!  If I agree with you Gala can I come too? Off to refuel the broomstick, pack the spaghetti tree and bake some sfoglia. 

Why isn't it wise Rickardo? Is someone likely to lay in wait and kidnap said Dog? or hold a mass protest outside Il Monaco every day through till the end of June? None of us here are members of Secret Organisations or a threat to National Security or possible Terrorist Targets (although I hear Esme has a bounty on her head) publishing ones whereabouts is hardly anything to hide.

Flip, you know not who reads nor their motive, not all are friends or even members. Thieves can read and if Gala and her husband and dog are at the cafe, they are not at home. They could know this anyway but to make your plans public to the world is stupidity. Insurance could be void.

My neighbours are the best security guards I could ever have. Nobody gets near my door without being thoroughly identified. And there is always someone, all day and night. And Esme, you can come too. I will also buy you a "sfoglia" and a cup of coffee. I am in a good, generous mood... 

I am coming! Without doubt I will be there 'cus if your place gets robbed as Rick is predicting then you will know for sure that it aint me who dunnit. Gala, the only place I would consider eating sfoglia from is Naples or mammas kitchen - so I'll bring some with me. Cafe is on you.

Yes, here I have to agree with you, "sfoglia" in Naples with a good cup of coffee is "boccata di cardinale"; however, the one that they serve at Il Monaco is glorious. No need to bring your own.

Aha!  So, you agree with me! Does this mean I must now invite you for coffee and sfoglia? 

That would be nice of you...

Sarebbe per me un piacere ed un onore grande invitare voi e vostra marito a Caffe Gambrinus nel centro storico da Napoli.  Possiamo incontrarci per un caffe e sfoglia quando lo desideri Signora.

Una tregua? Certo, amabile signora! And I will continue in English as my written Italian is not good enough. An invitation for coffee and sfoglia at Gambrinus? You are a real temptress! That would mark the signing of a peace treaty, olive branch and all... And I am a pacifist. Unfortunately, this time we will not be heading for Campania. Did that last year, staying in Praiano and enjoying the Costiera Amalfitana. Heavenly! In any case, thank you for your kind invitation and if you head up north mine stands. Send me a PM if you decide to come.

Thank you Ram.

And now we hear that 2nd house is payable in June as usual (the comune must post the aliquota on the net by 12 May) and 1a house is postponed until September.  So, at the moment, no abolition, just a postponement.  More next week!

Thank you, Ram. I guess that there will be no major changes for non-residents. They did all that last year. As for prima casa, perhaps they are trying to keep Berlusconi quiet until September... I do not think that to completely eliminate the tax is viable if the Comuni are to survive.

The biggest issue with IMU is for businesses. For example there are hotels here whose bills have gone up from 3.000 a year to 10.000 Plus IMU now has to be paid on farming land and rural buildings although there are some exemptions. I agree that the comuni need to be funded but whackng businesses that are struggling to survive seems rather counter productive to me.

Well, all those matters should be taken into consideration. We were originally talking about "prima casa" and holiday residences, and I have heard about some people who owned rental units who are in deep trouble. In the case of businesses, government should take into account that during hard economic times, they are simply trying to survive and increasing taxes is a recipe for disaster. The trouble is that we seem to have gone from one extreme to another. I can remember that some years ago property taxes were incredibly low. Then, Berlusconi decided that "prima casa" was not taxable. It did not affect us, as we have never been residents; however, we saw what the loss of a big chunk of revenue did to the Comune. And then, here comes Monti and his solution is to triplicate taxes... No common sense at all! 

If Italian Politics/Politicians had common sense Gala, Italy would not be in the state it is in now both Politically, Economically and Socially. I think it's something no Governments do, is think of consequence/action; hence the enormous pile of DoDo we're in now.

Ram - not all rural buildings can be registered as D10. It depends on the rules locally. Here it is only for agriturismi. Ours for example had to be a C category. I have yet to see a comune that does not charge IMU on agricultural land and round here it is charged at the higher rate (if you're lucky .9% otherwise .106%). Even if IMU is tax deductable a 300%+ rise still means you are substantially worse off!

But a C building is a not a rural building, it is a store, depisit, garage, etc.  Rural buildings that are used by farmers for the pursuit of their activity are not subject to IMU. Catastal rules are national, not local.  That is why in Puglia the local bigwigs all recatastoed their huge villas with pools as stalle and when the cops came put a sheep in the lounge - with wide screen tv, and claimed it was a farm building.  2000 properties sequestered.  

Not the case I'm afraid RAM. For example a category A, C02, C06,C07 can all still be rural buildings. There was a notification in relation to IMU by the Agenzie delle Entrate that said it is not the category of the building that governs whether it is rural any longer but the use of it. Previously you had to declare a building D10 or A6 for it to class as rural. The category A has to be the home of the farmer or dependent farm employees. The rest have to be used for agricoltural activities e.g. storing your tractor or produce. In fact it is only rural farm buildings 'fabbricati ad uso strumentale' in a mountain or partial mountain zone that don't pay IMU. I believe that individual comuni can choose to excempt the rural buildings if they choose but certainly none here have done so.

I think we are quibbling over your definition of the word rural.  Do you mean rural as in countryside or rural as in agricultural.  Catastal definitions are the same the world over.  A C6 is a stall, stable garage whether it is in town or in the country.  An A6 is a house that is not in a town, ie rural - but it doesnt have to be a farm.   

IMU has been postponed but only on prima casa - for everything else the first tranche is due by 16 June.  The comunes should, by now, have published the rates for 2nd homes etc - and they should be visible on the comune websites.  For prima casa - at the moment - the first tranche has been postponed until September, but itis likely that for this year there will be no IMU on prima casa - otherwise we will have to go through the elections all over again.  

Just to be clear (because I am starting to bore myself now :-) ) I was referring to rural only in the context of IMU as that s what the post was about.

SO, as of last night the situation is:  No IMU payable in June on Prima casa, agricultural land, business premises.   IMU in June payable on second homes, everything else and prima casa if it is A1, A8 or A9 - ie luxury homes, castle, etc. If there is no decree by end of August, then the postponed first tranche will be payable by 16 Sept - clever ruse by Letta to stop Berlo from bringing down the government before Sept.   

I suppose any home owned by a  foreigner is considered  de iure to be a 'seconda casa' and therefore liable to IMU in June?

Thank you - your answer was more comprehensive than  I anticipated.  I was thinking of my situation - i.e. a  foreigner who is not a resident in Italy but in the UK.   So, I suppose the last of your examples applies and I will  be liable to IMU again in June.

An Oggi supplement with Il Seccolo yesterday talks about the multiplyer being changed from 60 - 65 leading to an 8.3% increase in IMU on second homes. It seems it all might be declared on the 7th June. Leaving 10 days to make payment. Anyone know any more about this? Is it definite or does it need to be ratified. 

HelloWe've just purchased in Bagni, how do we work out how much tax needs to be paid twice a year? Also do you use agents on your behalf to pay these bill or do you pay everything yourself?Thanks

You can do the calculations and print the form on this website http://www.amministrazionicomunali.it/imu/calcolo_imu.phpYou could pop into your local comune and ask them to help you calculate what you should pay - if they have fixed it. Then using the catasto information do the forms and pay at the post office.Alternatively you could employ a commercialista or your estate agent to do it for you.

Paid the IMU last week on our Italian house , from the UKGot the F24 through the Comune website - already filled in from the details I gave last year, so no calculations to makePhoned my italian Bank, who agreed that they could pay the bill, from my account  [Last year I could pay by bank transfer from the UK, but not an option this year]Emailed the F24 to the bankReceipt for payment received back, by email, the next day "Simples"  .................................... [I hope]

I went to the comune today and was told the aliquote was 0.96% like December and that the payment was the same as last year. Pay half  the house/store now and the rest plus the land tax in December 2013 I was able to fill out an F24 online but had to print it out...

I am confused by 'Prima'/'Seconda'.... sorry to be asking what is  probably a stupid question in some eyes, but I do need a definitive answer in order to pay the IMU if necessary!Having decided NOT to apply for residency on the advice of members from this community, is my home in Umbria a Prima Casa or a Seconda Casa?  I own half a house in the UK, where I am resident when not in Italy.  I visit my home in Umbria for 2 - 4 weeks at a time throughout the year, probably up to 16 weeks per year in total.  I do not let it out....I will be there next week, so hope it will not be too late to pay if I need to?

It is seconda casa and you must pay IMU. the final date for paying was 17 June, so you are late and may have to pay a fine.

Oh sh1t!  Thank you Rickardo. Normally mail is forwarded, but I have not got this one....

Maggi, you must flie a F24 form for the house, if you not in Italy for 183 days a year minimum then you are not calssed Resident and house canot be Prima Cassa, especial as you not declared resident.Not sure of how much fine will be for you as I think it is % of the total. You need to go to your local INAC office who will help you fill in forms and next year will do it for you, their service cost is very cheap.

The FineI think it is 3% on the whole amount plus 2.5% annual rate calculated on the amount of days passed between the 17th June and the day you pay

Thank you for the advice everyone.  I can live with a 10 euro fine....  I was worried that it might be hundreds! Payment will be 10 days late....  I have already completed the F24 form, but there is no option with my Comune to submit it on-line.  Errr.... INAC?  Sorry, but only purchased 10 months ago, so still very 'green' about these things!

INAC (Istituto nazionale di assistenza ai cittadini) offices offer services to Citizens to help them pay for there IMU and personel taxes. The advice they give is charged a small ammount each year (€25-30) so is cheaper than accountant. They submit bill for you to Comune, offices in most towns in Italy look online.  http://www.inac-cia.it/inac/

Maggie I'm sure you  will  be able to sort it out at the comune for no fee. However, if you have an Italian bank account and do internet banking they may have a F24 you can fill in and submit electronically. Mine does.