Hi! There was a similar post
Submitted by Gala Placidia on Thu, 10/30/2014 - 03:49In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Hi! There was a similar post some years ago. The answers from Charlotte Oliver should be very useful. https://www.italymagazine.com/community/post/legal-transfer
If it is the result of the
Submitted by modicasa on Thu, 10/30/2014 - 05:11In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
If it is the result of the succession, then the sibling can refuse the succession and it automatically will go to the other heirs. Thats the only way to do it without incurring expense. If it is as the result of a donation, then it must be donated in turn to the other sibling which has the costs of notaio and taxes. I presume the original donation was done more than 10 years ago?
Yes, the Donation Deed was
Submitted by bellacasamia on Thu, 10/30/2014 - 11:39In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
IT is a perfectly valid and
Submitted by modicasa on Thu, 10/30/2014 - 13:39In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
IT is a perfectly valid and legal form of transferring property, but the problem with a donation is that can be opposed. Usually notaios put a limit of 10 years for opposition, but the basis of it is that if you give soemthing to one child, then the others can oppose it and have it reversed if they dont get something of equal value.
Hello,
Submitted by bellacasamia on Thu, 10/30/2014 - 14:06In reply to IT is a perfectly valid and by modicasa
Hello,When you say opposed, by whom, other members of the family even after 19 years? If the other siblings donate their share and in turn can the donation deed be changed to a Title Deed. Just trying to avoid any claims and/or legal issues in the future especially if the one sibling is putting money into the propertyExample:Two siblings donate their share to one sibling. Thereafter the one sibling owning property sells to his children will that change it from a Donation Deed to Title Deed.
The donation is a title deed.
Submitted by modicasa on Fri, 10/31/2014 - 02:09In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
The donation is a title deed. Its like a house sale - you will paytax and notaios fees on it, and it will be transcribed and placed in the public registers. For the rest i thought I was clear. You make a donation to one child, and for 10 years it can be opposed by other possible beneficiaries. After ten years it would be difficult to mkae a case to oppose the donation, but not impossible. After 19 years, I reckong you're in the clear.
I have another question. We
Submitted by bellacasamia on Tue, 11/04/2014 - 12:46In reply to The donation is a title deed. by modicasa
I have another question. We were told not to do the donation deed due to opposing heirs from famity tree but to proceed with Adverse Possession. My question again six total sibling but only three were donated/gifted the property. If we were to go thru Adverse Possession will the letters of intention for ownership only be sent to the three siblings registered with the property or does it include all six siblings. And if possible can anyone explain briefly the Adverse Possession process in Italy.Thanks in Advance!!!
Thank You for your help
Submitted by bellacasamia on Fri, 10/31/2014 - 09:21In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
I presume that adverse
Submitted by modicasa on Thu, 11/06/2014 - 04:11In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
I presume that adverse possession is called usucapione in Italy - and there are very strict rules about its apllication. There are 2 types, that in good faith and that in bad faith - the difference is 10 years, ie - once a pretension to usucapione is transcribed it does not take effect for 10 years, (or 20 if made in bad faith). The right of usucapione is based on whether it can be opposed. If I have a ruin next to my house and cant find the owners I can claim the property in usucapione. If within the next ten years nobody arrives on my doorstep and tells me that they are the legal owner of the property, it becomes mine. On the basis of your question, all the owners should be informed, otherwise it will only take one to send it all haywire. It also has a cost - as the usucapione must be transcribed by a notaio to start the calendar ticking. If all the heirs give their consent its a pretty straightforward way of doing things, but not instant. And of course if the resultant owner decides to sell they will have to sell on the usucapione with a significant reduction in price, as the new owner takes on the risk .
Thank you again for your
Submitted by bellacasamia on Tue, 11/11/2014 - 09:28In reply to I presume that adverse by modicasa
Your father can initiate it -
Submitted by modicasa on Tue, 11/11/2014 - 10:34In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Thank You. You know so much
Submitted by bellacasamia on Tue, 11/11/2014 - 11:26In reply to Your father can initiate it - by modicasa
Once my father initiates the
Submitted by bellacasamia on Tue, 11/11/2014 - 18:31In reply to Your father can initiate it - by modicasa
Once my father initiates the succession and pays for the taxes how can he get money back from my uncle's heirs. They originally was going to give their share to my father and now changed their minds, after we put in money and so many hours of research, the bottom line is that the house needs some major repairs, it is attached to other homes and needs to be addressed. My uncle's heirs will not address this problem and take responsiblity. My Father wants to remove deceased names and do property transfer to my Uncles heirs so they can share expenses and be responsible for any maintance, utilities and repairs pertaining to this property. The other sibling is in the process of transferring her share. Any further advise. Thanks!!!
Thats a sensible thing to do.
Submitted by modicasa on Wed, 11/12/2014 - 00:49In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Thats a sensible thing to do. Once the property is in the heirs (uncles) names, they will be responsible for the ongoing taxes ad charges which will make them sit up and take notice hopefully if they have to get their cheque books out three or four times a year. But of course it doesnt mean that they must pay - theycan just wait until the property is mortgaged by the comune to pay the back taxes.... However, if I were in your position Id do the same thing as your dad. Good luck. Im not an attorney, but i do all this sort of stuff as my job so have a fair bit of experience....
Hi Modicasa
Submitted by bellacasamia on Wed, 11/12/2014 - 11:55In reply to Thats a sensible thing to do. by modicasa
Hi ModicasaWith your experience can you give us a breakdown in what to expect including the inheritance taxes and other taxes and/fees that will apply. It sounds like they base it from the value of the house and according to the donation deed it valued back in 1995 at 20.000.00 (ventimillion) in lires not euros (I think in euros its approx. 10,300) and the house has been unoccupied since then. So you can image the condition its in now. Would we need to hire an attorney or a Notary. Thank You.
It will be based on the
Submitted by modicasa on Thu, 11/13/2014 - 00:57In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Holy moly!
Submitted by prairiepaintbrush on Fri, 11/14/2014 - 11:37In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Bellacasamia, you may be
Submitted by Gala Placidia on Tue, 11/18/2014 - 08:42In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Bellacasamia, you may be putting yourselves into a lot of trouble. I think that I would call a family meeting to clarify everything or you may be advancing monies in a project that meay become a nightmare. You need to have written documents stating what the other beneficiaries want to do and ALSO, you should not start paying for everything. At the meeting, you should draw a document clarifying the position of all potential heirs and also establishing a fund, to which EVERYONE who wishes to keep their share of the inheritance should contribute proportionally. Also, find out how much is the current value of the property (not the cadastral one) and which would be the costs associated with its restoration. Get THREE quotes, so there is no doubt. A house that has been uninhabited for such a long time may have roof and structural damage. It would be better to spend your money in a lawyer and some technical reports rather than doing all the work yourself and have all sorts of trouble at the end.Keep in mind that many "potential heirs" may decide to renounce to their rights once they see that they have to put money up front. But they have to renounce in writing.Good luck!
Hello Gala,
Submitted by bellacasamia on Tue, 11/18/2014 - 12:53In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Hello Gala,Thank you for your post. We totally understand your recommendation, but we tried to discuss this issue with my Uncle who did not want to put any money into the house in Italy and now that he is deceased his spouse and children did not want anything to do with the house and was going to give their 1/3 total share to my father (i have an email stating the same). So we started to look into what we had to do which took over 6 months to gather paperwork and have an engineer look at the property in which he started stacking last year, there are some issues that arised. When we finally recieved final details and instruction to proceed we contacted my Uncles family and they changed their minds and needed to think about it, but at that time we did discuss with them what the engineer found and the work that needs to be done, not yet in writing and it has been 2 weeks since we heard back from them. We have everything on hold right now, with expenses owed to certain parties. We are trying to located an Attorney to assist us.Thank You