Budget for buying a farmhouse to

You say it needs to be changed from rural to residential.   If it results as a fabbricato rurale at the catasto it cannot be sold as such.    If you buy it as a barn/stall/unita colabente then you cant do anything without a change of destination and that means project, prfoessionals, fees and so on - and time.  

I would take notice of what Modi is saying! Even the top of the range cost looks low from what I've read on that area. But you really need to understand what Modi has said. It's no good thinking if I've been told all is okay and I'll go to court if there is a problem, it just does not work that way in Italy....

Buying a barn which can become a house, isnt just dependent on the offer.   Before you can lay a finger on the property ro ' make it residential' you will have to an archtect/geometra who draws up a project,  submit it tothe comune,  the genio civile for the septic tank and other stuff.  You will find that your initial budget goes on paperwork.  

NO Im not saying that.  Im saying don't underestimate the costs and time involved in converting a non residential building into a residential building.    Alot depends on the catastal classification of the building at the moment.  If its classed as a fabbricato rurale then you cant buy it until it has been changed and that opens a whole can of worms.   If its a C2 a C6 or something then you can buy it, but your taxes on the purchase will be higher than if it were an A3 for example, and then have to go through the change of destination.    

Modi, are you saying the project could cost 40000?

No Steve - the OP said they were planning between 10 and 15K for the first tranche of renovations.    While some fees are fixed, some are percentages of the work to be done.    

Ah, my not reading the full post properly again. I would have no real experience of this, but would have guessed from what others have told me and I’ve read 5000-10000 minimum.

Essentially, all I'm trying to understand is approximately how much I should budget to make the first floor of around 35m2 habitable, as well as around how far I can get with €10-15k in a 'first wave' of work.I've renovated that exact same surface area in Paris before and it cost me €18k, but that's my only reference point. I will obviously soon have quotes from contractors, but was hoping I'd get lucky and someone on here would have first-hand experience to compare with!My research so far suggests the following costs that I will have right away:

• Septic tank: €1000
• Electrical wiring: €4000
• Windows: €2500
• Bathroom: €2500
• Kitchen: €2000

I would suspect the kitchen and bathroom will cost twice that at least, these are the only two we have actual experience of, but we did have a similar est for electrics.

A septic tank may cost 1000 euros, but the project,  permission from genio civile, comune, professional fees, labour, excavator,  collaudo,   etc will make it nearer 2500 I would think.  

I had a look back at the costs, yes more than a third of the cost was fittings. The bathroom itself was 2.7 x 1.93m, all fittings reasonable-good quality, tiles were the largest outlay for the fittings at circa €450. The cost was to strip out the old fittings, pipes under 15cm or so of concrete, new pipes, tile and new fittings.

Good morning,
As a structural engineer, I am taking the opportunity to raise a point into the English community about property in need of renovation.

The asking price reflects exactly he purpose of my comment as I have heard so many times in this community the "budget for renovation"; you forget we are in a seismic area and properties are subject to seismic load instead of vertical ones only.

Having said that, the reason why I said that is based on the amount of new doors, wall moved, etc. which will affect the seismic response of the property.

If the addition to the load on the foundation (new walls and openings, "cordoli di coronamento e di interpiano", etc.) is less then 10%, it is called a "miglioramento sismico" which gives you the opportunity to act only locally therefore the impact on the budget will be minor; if the addition is more than 10%, it is called an "adeguamento sismico" and it has to be checked the response of the structure and its "effetto scatolare" (box behaviour - when subject to earthquake waves the structure has to shake all together without any relative movements between one wall and the other). This will have a major impact on the budget and it cannot be given a cost per square metrage as it very much depends by the design. As a general idea, on a property of 70 mq, the seismic upgrading, normally, is in the region of 30-40 k€ (unless "strange" design).

The asking price is exactly a reflection of what I meant. 55 k€ means to me the property has been built around 1950-1960 and it has never been seismically improved therefore it has to be accounted a certain amount of money for seismic upgrading (I would say 30-40 k€); a professional is required, as "Direttore dei lavori", to certify works have been done according to best industry practice and a certificate has to be released at the end of this first phase within 60 days by completion (Relazione a Strutture Ultimate). The "collaudo statico" (performed by a 10+ structural engineer not involved in any phase of the design or "Direzione lavori") has be released after this certificate in order to have the "Certificato di agibilità" (Certificate of H&S and regulatory compliance - art. 24 DPR 380/01) at the end of the site, including the building services best industry practice certificate (D.M. 37/08 Dichiarazione di conformità Impianti).

Having said that, the "rule of thumb" for restoration cost should be 150-200 €/mq for the concrete structure, 450-500 €/mq for the "cocoon" gross of structure cost (including the walls and "intonaci"/plaster-render).

Another cost is 450-500 €/mq for building services and doors/windoes, tiles (Excluding fixture and fittings).

I have mentioned materials with "average" quality as, for example, tiles can go from 10 €/mq to 100 €/mq (I have mentioned tiles 25 €/mq which will do their jobs without being "expensive").

Hope this little post will help you avoiding "strange" surprises when budgeting your project. Please note these are "generic" numbers and each case is different depending by the design…..

Moreover, in order to modify the "Destinazione d'uso" is not as simple and straightforward as mentioned as it has to be checked the indice fondiario related to the land, any house already built, etc.

I would suggest to double check the "Regolamento Urbanistico" before buying a barn which cannot be converted (using, of course, professional advice)

Regards

Great post giuseppinasibilla!