This could be ok or it could
Submitted by pamela on Tue, 07/26/2011 - 19:52
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
This could be ok or it could be a disaster! I have had both when buying property without an estate agent in Italy. I would suggest getting a guide to buying property in Italy and following it, identifying possible pitfalls and asking/checking yourself, directly with the relevant authorities. Friendly (seeming?) sellers may not know of problems or may be hiding them, with the onus on you to be careful - 'caveat emptor' originates as an expression in ancient Rome - "Let the buyer beware". If your Italian is not very good, then get the assistance of an English speaking lawyer would be my advice, even if only to look over the deed of sale in advance, if not to attend the signing with the notary. And for those who say that the notary's work should ensure there are no problems, well, all I can say is that I was told that as well, and it did not work out that way.
I agree with Pamela. Unless
Submitted by Gala Placidia on Wed, 07/27/2011 - 03:05
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Thanks for the advice. I do
Submitted by Ritaruth on Wed, 07/27/2011 - 04:28
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Thanks for the advice. I do speak very good Italian but I am struggling with some of the legal terms (I probably would in English too to be honest!) Can anyone recommend a good, resonably priced translation service as I would feel much more confident with the documents in English.
I'd say it's not so much the
Submitted by Annec on Wed, 07/27/2011 - 04:35
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
I'd say it's not so much the actual words in teh contract, but all the other stuff which you won't know because you don't know anything about the Italian conveyancing system. For instance: Will the surrounding farmers sign away their right to buy your land? How do you know that the vendors are the only owners? Who else may have rights over your property? I think it is a requirement that all legal documents are translated to ensure you understand. But on the principle that you don't know what you don't know - I'd want a professional to be involved.
Our house was also a private
Submitted by alma on Wed, 07/27/2011 - 05:47
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Our house was also a private sale but we found it with the help of a house finding service who also guided us through the procedure. Maybe you could get advice from them at www.Helloit.co.uk I'm sorry . I dont know why I cant make this link live.
Our house was also a private
Submitted by alma on Wed, 07/27/2011 - 05:47
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Our house was also a private sale but we found it with the help of a house finding service who also guided us through the procedure. Maybe you could get advice from them at www.Helloit.co.uk I'm sorry . I dont know why I cant make this link live.
Oh. It IS live. !
Submitted by alma on Wed, 07/27/2011 - 05:50
In reply to Our house was also a private by alma
Thanks Alma, will lokk at
Submitted by Ritaruth on Wed, 07/27/2011 - 07:54
In reply to Our house was also a private by alma
You dont seem to say where
Submitted by Angie and Robert on Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:23
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
We're buying in Liguria, just
Submitted by Ritaruth on Wed, 07/27/2011 - 10:51
In reply to You dont seem to say where by Angie and Robert
It sounds like your house
Submitted by alma on Thu, 07/28/2011 - 14:29
In reply to We're buying in Liguria, just by Ritaruth
Ps We didn't use a solicitor,
Submitted by alma on Thu, 07/28/2011 - 14:33
In reply to It sounds like your house by alma
Hi Alma, yes the house is
Submitted by Ritaruth on Fri, 07/29/2011 - 04:40
In reply to It sounds like your house by alma
We know that road Ritaruth.
Submitted by alma on Fri, 07/29/2011 - 07:00
In reply to Hi Alma, yes the house is by Ritaruth
We know that road Ritaruth. We are slightly farther south in the lower vara valley, close to Calice al cornoviglio. The whole Vara Valley is a stunning, quite undiscovered (by the English) area. Maybe we can meet one day if we are both in Italy at the same time? (
Yes that would be good. We
Submitted by Ritaruth on Fri, 07/29/2011 - 07:07
In reply to We know that road Ritaruth. by alma
i have sent you a private
Submitted by alma on Fri, 07/29/2011 - 07:31
In reply to Yes that would be good. We by Ritaruth
We know that road Ritaruth.
Submitted by alma on Fri, 07/29/2011 - 07:01
In reply to Hi Alma, yes the house is by Ritaruth
We know that road Ritaruth. We are slightly farther south in the lower vara valley, close to Calice al cornoviglio. The whole Vara Valley is a stunning, quite undiscovered (by the English) area. Maybe we can meet one day if we are both in Italy at the same time? (
We know that road Ritaruth.
Submitted by alma on Fri, 07/29/2011 - 07:01
In reply to Hi Alma, yes the house is by Ritaruth
We know that road Ritaruth. We are slightly farther south in the lower vara valley, close to Calice al cornoviglio. The whole Vara Valley is a stunning, quite undiscovered (by the English) area. Maybe we can meet one day if we are both in Italy at the same time? (
What is the consensus /
Submitted by pamela on Wed, 07/27/2011 - 14:09
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
What is the consensus / opinion on not using a lawyer if the sale is being handled by a registered estate agent and if one speaks pretty good Italian and has experience of the process through having bought and sold before? We are soon to buy a house through a registered estate agent and I would appreciate the thoughts of those who have done this as we have only bought through 'finders' before. Thanks.
We bought through a private
Submitted by La Dolcevita on Wed, 07/27/2011 - 14:18
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
We bought through a private sale and entrusted a lawyer to prepare the contracts for us - BIG MISTAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!! The lawyer we used did not do his job properly and now we potentially have a major problem - we have a new solicitor who seems to be doing a good job - but too early to tell as yet. I agree re getting a book - if I was doing it again I would still go through a lawyer but request in writing that they do the following things as Annec listed:- Will the surrounding farmers sign away their right to buy your land? How do you know that the vendors are the only owners? Who else may have rights over your property? And anything else that the book suggests and ask for copies of everything that they do so you know it has been done. It may sound OTT but we assumed that instructing a lawyer to act on our behalf would mean that they would automatically do these things - some may ours didn't. Don't let it put you off though as thousands of people have sales go through no problem at all. Our solicitor who is helping us now is based in Liguria in Ventimiglia - if you want her details please PM me Good luck
I am about to purchase an…
Submitted by Dana Dunlap on Sat, 03/13/2021 - 16:28
In reply to We bought through a private by La Dolcevita
Hi there, I saw your post…
Submitted by Stuart Alderton on Tue, 07/27/2021 - 05:45
In reply to We bought through a private by La Dolcevita
Hi there,
I saw your post from years ago. I am intending to purchase a property in a village on the liguria/toscana border from a private seller who isn't using an estate agent. I wonder if your lawyer in Ventimiglia is English Speaking and if so if you might be able to give me their details? Many thanks
Stuart
We have been informed that we
Submitted by Ritaruth on Wed, 07/27/2011 - 17:19
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
We have been informed that we do not even need to use a solicitor. The buyers want to just use the notaio and the geometra. We were informed that once the initial agreement document was signed by both parties and and then stamped and signed by the notaio, it becomes a legal document. Is this right? We are not excluding an agent. we stayed at the house, which was running as a B&B when we went to havea look around the area. The owners informed us that it was for sale and we fell in love with it and decided to buy. The owners are English and have sold another property in his manner.
We have been informed that we
Submitted by Ritaruth on Wed, 07/27/2011 - 17:19
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
We have been informed that we do not even need to use a solicitor. The buyers want to just use the notaio and the geometra. We were informed that once the initial agreement document was signed by both parties and and then stamped and signed by the notaio, it becomes a legal document. Is this right? We are not excluding an agent. we stayed at the house, which was running as a B&B when we went to havea look around the area. The owners informed us that it was for sale and we fell in love with it and decided to buy. The owners are English and have sold another property in his manner.
Yes it's accurate that you
Submitted by La Dolcevita on Wed, 07/27/2011 - 19:18
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Yes it's accurate that you don't need to use a solicitor - you can get the compromesso (the promise to buy) drawn up and then sign the final act (think it's called the rogito) in front of the notary all without the use of a solicitor. You must make sure though that you know exactly what you are doing - the italian buying process is very different- if you're not going to use a solicitor I would suggest you find someone independant who understands the process and double check everything
a couple of things
Submitted by Ram on Thu, 07/28/2011 - 03:20
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
The bare minimum you need is a buyer, a seller, and a notaio. Everything else is an optional. As buyers you can choose the notaio, dont take the recommendation of the seller. Do you need a lawyer - not if its a straightfoward sale, no. Using a third party company - if they are not an estate agent (ie licenced and working legally in Italy) then you are chucking your money away. You have no legal comeback of they make a pigs ear of it all and you end up ruined. A buyers agent is that because they work illegally in ITaly or legally in the UK - they have no legal right to any commission and you're wasting your time paying them a fortune. Do you need an agent - moot point. Im an agent - and I cant imagine buying a property in Italy without an agent, knowing what I know now after 6 years. The paperwork is mind-numbing and getting worse all the time. Admittedly a good notaio will help alot - but the seller needs to provide alot of stuff now, adn the buyer needs to ask all the right questions. Just because a Brit is selling doesnt make it a simple matter - in my experience some of the worst sellers (economical with the truth) were foreigners. Its not worth buying any old book - the law is constant flux you need one that is very recent - (mine obviously is the best!) But basically it is possible to buy without an agent - if your ITalian is good and you are happy spending hours shunting from one office to another, getting copies of bits of paper that dont exist, tracking down ancient rights of servitù, prelazione, usufrutto etc then its fine. If you speak no Italian, want a pain free and relatively quick experience, get someone to help.
Thanks fo all the comments
Submitted by Ritaruth on Thu, 07/28/2011 - 04:29
In reply to a couple of things by Ram
Great comments eh ?
Submitted by sprostoni on Thu, 07/28/2011 - 08:53
In reply to Thanks fo all the comments by Ritaruth
I have to say that reading through all the helpful comments that have been made, well done Italy Mag members ! I think (??) the 'prelazione' is a bit like in the UK when you sign contracts but not yet at the point of 'completing'. Once you sign the prelazione: you are COMMITTED to buying (whatever the agreed property and contents are) at the agreed price (or you lose as a minimum your deposit). Once the seller signs the prelazione: they are COMMITTED to selling (whatever the agreed property and contents are) (or they are required to pay you DOUBLE the deposit that you have paid). So make sure that all of what you want (and don't want) is covered in specific clauses. For what it's worth, given all the other advice you have received, we did not use a solicitor, utilising only the Geometra and the Notaio (along with our own common sense). Good luck, S
prelazione
Submitted by Ram on Thu, 07/28/2011 - 06:59
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Prelazione is the right of a neighbour to have preference on the purchase of land. The neighbour must be under 70 years old, a coltivatore diretto or azienda agricola, or renting the land with a regular contract. If this is the case he has first option on the land for the price you are paying. It isnt picking a bit he likes though, its all or nothing. He has the right within 18 months from the date of the act to excercise his right to buy. Obviously its best to get him to waive his right before you sign the act, otehrwise it can happen that someone comes along after a year and you lose it all. It obviously means you should not underdeclare the sale price, as the neighbour will only have to pay the price declared at act.
preliminare
Submitted by Ram on Thu, 07/28/2011 - 07:02
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Sprostoni you've got your words mixed up - you're talking about a preliminare di vendita. The caparra (deposit) is either confermatoria or penitenziaria and basically both cover your options. However a confermatoria means that either party can go to court to force the sale, a penitenziaria its just losing the deposit or double the deposit as you wrote.
In reply to preliminare by Ram
Thank you RAM. That has made
Submitted by Ritaruth on Thu, 07/28/2011 - 07:24
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
Ram, what is the name of your
Submitted by pamela on Thu, 07/28/2011 - 10:10
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
freepublicity!!
Submitted by Ram on Fri, 07/29/2011 - 03:08
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
We sold a house privately
Submitted by Penny on Fri, 07/29/2011 - 06:02
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
We sold a house privately last year. We still paid an agent to do all the paperwork. As it was a private sale we didn't pay them a commission. Both us and the buyer paid them €500 each. All parties were happy and they paperwork got done properly. It might be another option for you.
Grateful for any details
Submitted by DTGStrong on Wed, 07/12/2017 - 07:16
In reply to A newbie all over again! by Annec
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