Help please about taxation and future 50% ownership (non Italian resident)

04/18/2012 - 11:09

Hello everyone :)I'm new to this website that I found on the web. I need all the advise I can get, please!Here is the situation: I left Italy when I was very young (or more precisely I run away from home) and made England my home since early 80's (not British naturalised yet). I have a son and a daughter, one born in UK the other in the US, who live with me.After leaving home Italy, my parents divorced and my mother left 50% of her share of the property they had bought together to myself. My father had asked me to either return to his home or issue a Procura Generale, which I did. I never knew the actual meaning of this type of procura till an advisor at the Consulate pointed out to me the strength of such procura. Oh gosh!!! How naive I was at the time. Therefore, I revoked the Procura General only a few months ago.I returned to my father's house 3-4 times for very brief visits (my last visit was last month after 11 years because he was very ill in hospital) and to give him any suggestions about his problems with the property (various litigations with his neighbours!) has always proven an impossible task. My father lives with his wife of many years.My father and his wife demand that I write another procura because they wish to sell their property and it's the only way for them to pay taxes on my behalf (so I've been told). They also tell me that I must pay a new tax (IMU) because I am a non-resident and it is assumed to be my 2nd home. I am very confused about it all as I am not familiar with Italian taxation [b]at all[/b] and this '2nd home' because I do [i]not own[/i] a home; I rent the flat I live in with my children. Would this this still considered my 2nd home?Could I file whatever taxes I would need to pay from the UK and where can I download the forms?Where can I find information, legal/financial advice?Does anyone know of Italian forums that deal with Italian taxation?Any advise, ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.Where can I find informations

Topic

Tax and Finance

Comment

The situation you describe seems very complex - for your own peace of mind I would speak to a lawyer who will be able to give you sound legal advice to make sure you are protected. I would recommend not signing ANYTHING until you have spoken to him/her As I understand it you own 50% of your mothers share ie 25% of the house your father and step mother live in you are therefore liable for your 25% share of what was ICI and is now as of June called IMU (it's like council tax - in comparison to the UK it's not a lot that you will need to pay) But I would speak to a lawyer and take all the paperwork so you are clear on yur legal rights and also your responsibilities as a partial house owner.

Thank you for your reply. >As I understand it you own 50% of your mothers share ie 25% of the house your father and step mother live >in you are therefore liable for your 25% share of what was ICI and is now as of June called IMU (it's like council >tax - in comparison to the UK it's not a lot that you will need to pay)... 25% instead of 50% ? I see... Yes, I think you're right I need proper advise. I live in London. I hope member Charlotte sees this post and might reply.

I can recommend a lawyer in Italy - if you're still living in the UK though it might be better to have one there. There's someone on this forum called Charlotte who is either a lawyer (or if not should be a lawyer) - someone who has been on here longer can point you in her direction I'm sure

I've just had a search through and her name is Charlotte Oliver. If you go into the second bar (the red one) at the top of the forum and click on groups - you'll see there is a group called succession law in italy which Charlotte "looks after". You'll be able to send her a private message now you have her name. Good luck

I agree that Charlotte will be able to help. But - your father does not need a procura to pay taxes you owe. He can just pay them. You own a share of the house, and they cannot sell without your permission. A second home - is called that because you live in London and are not resident in Italy, so your share of the family home is taxed as a nonresident - ie a second home. This is where it gets complicated, because you could say that your father pay your share of taxes as they presumably dont pay you rent for your share but have comodato d'uso and possession of the house and are therefore liable for taxes. The further complication is that when you father passes away you will inherit by law half of his share of the house (if you are an only child) so will end up being a 50% owner of the property. However, you cant pay your taxes from the UK, they must be paid in Italy.

I think you must consult ideally a notaio (although these are probably few and far between in the UK) or a solicitor specialising in Italian law. They will be able to establish very quickly what proportion of the house you currently 'own', and to prepare for you a procura speciale in order for you to delegate the power of sale of your part (if that is what you wish to do). It isn't only this year for which you will have been liable for a tax on property ownership, now it is IMU previously it was ICI (although possibly your father paid this on your behalf in previous years, although as Ram says he didn't need any sort of procura to do that for you). It is important to understand that these taxes are imposed on idividual property owners, not on the property as a whole. (Your father and his wife will not have been liable for any property tax since 2007 when ICI was abolished for residents, so it may not have occurred to him to even consider that you still had an obligation). You need a commercialista to sort your IMU and all of your back taxes out for you (assuming there are any). There are discounts for people such as yourself, who have close relatives resident in the property of which you own a part. If you happened to be registered with AIRE (the official list of Italians resident abroad) you probably would not have any tax liability in respect of a second home. It might even be worth your while inscribing yourself on this register (to exempt you from much of the IMU) but I don't think it would be retrospective if you have any back tax due to pay. Enqure of the Italian Embassy about this.

>La Dolcevita: ...I've just had a search through and her name is Charlotte Oliver. Thank you >RAM... But - your father does not need a procura to pay taxes you owe. He can just pay them. You own a share of the house, and they cannot sell without your permission. I'm wondering why does he keep asking me for a procura? I hope that he did not use the Procura General he had for many years to borrow money on my name. I'm only speculating, of course. I'll have to try to dig deeper and find out but it's going to be a feat as he's not the easiest person to reason with (sigh!). Thank you for clarifying about the 2nd home--that's confusing for me as I don't live in Italy but I see what you mean. >However, you cant pay your taxes from the UK, they must be paid in Italy. Oh dear! That means I'll have to make a trip down to where they live and pay if they decide not to. >Fillide: .....If you happened to be registered with AIRE (the official list of Italians >resident abroad) you >probably would not have any tax liability in respect >of a second home. It might even be worth your while >inscribing yourself on >this register (to exempt you from much of the IMU) but I don't think it >would be >retrospective if you have any back tax due to pay. Enqure of the >Italian Embassy about this. Yes, dad told me about ICI that I believe he did pay in the past. Yes, I am registered with EIRE. I'll drop the Italian Consulate an email. As far as the Notaio, I could use the one my father has been recently using or find one in the area. A Commercialista? ... Ok, I'll find one. Thank you All :) It looks like I have a lot of homework to do. My apologies from turning up onto this Forum with such a private and delicate problem but I feel a little lost, actually a lot as I've got a lot on at the moment (juggling my work, studies, family commitment, etc, etc,,,). I keep thinking about the positive things: the blue sky & blue sea I saw last time and a clear sky. I had forgotten the colour of the sea. Cheers! :)

"..... As far as the Notaio, I could use the one my father has been recently using or find one in the area. ....." I'd suggest you do not use the Notaio that your father does - better one that might be more 'independent'.

I think that the advice given by Alanh is very sound. Try to have your own Notaio.

>I'd suggest you do not use the Notaio that your father does - better one that might be more 'independent'. >I think that the advice given by Alanh is very sound. Try to have your own Notaio. Ok, will do. Thank you.