Health again - will your permesso run out in the next 12 months? If so please read below:

Yes I have queried this in another post, My carte di identita runs out 5th July so I went in to my commune to ask and he just said come back when it expires and I will renew it, no mention of checking my bank statement or needing health insurance, anyway all will be revealed next week-I will get back to you and let you know what happens!

Penny , thanks for all the research and hard work you are putting into this. I wonder if we might be able to hold all the information/threads under one banner or even make it a sticky?A

But the permesso sigiorno has been abolished, we no longer need  to renew them when they expire, we only need the identity card.

Hi Penny, I think it merits a group, something like Marche health care, we have enough members here from Marche to make it viable I think.A

qui-gia' I am afraid that is not correct. The Permesso di Soggiorno has been abolished but when it expires, so does your libretto sanitaria and therefore your entitlement to healthcover. The permesso has been replaced by a straightforward residency document (so it hasn't completely disappeared, just morphed into something else).  As ever in Italy, thing sare not as straightforward as they seem and the anagrafe offices seem to know very little. It has taken 2 months for ours to get around to reading the laws and circulars and agree I am right. It is vitally important that you go to the comune to get the "Attestazione di soggiorno permanente". If you don't, then your registration with the SSN will be cancelled after 30 days and they will not accept a Cart d'Identita to reinstate it. Your comune is probably under the belief that beacuse you are resident, when your permesso runs out you will still be resident and so don't need to do anything. In one respect this is true but the sticking point is the healthcover which must be renewed within 30 days of expiry or by taking the "Attestazione di soggiorno permanente" to the ASUR office. A friend of mine believed the same as you and did nothing when his permesso ran out. The comune (admittedly not known for it's helpfulness) cancelled his residency and he had to start from the beginning as if he had just arrived in Italy and reapply for residency. They would not budge. Ridiculous but true and how do you fight it? A&R - will do as you suggest

 "The permesso has been replaced by a straightforward residency document (so it hasn't completely disappeared, just morphed into something else). " True.  To avoid confusion rather than calling it permesso maybe we should call it residency.

EEK Penny I have created the group, Health Care in Marche, its the least I could do after all your hard work!, hope we now dont have 2.A

Hi Penny we come under Macerata, we got our residency in November 2007, took certificate to ASR in Sarnarno and were issued with our tessera sanitaria. On Simon's it reads scad. illimitata  but nothing on mine. Simon is a diabetic so this maybe why it looks like he can access healthcare whatever?  But our ID cards say they are valid until 2018. Our residency certificate we think was issued for 5 years, but the ASR has it. I get very confused by all this, as I'm sure many do. Simon has had no problems accessing healthcare, luckily I have not had to but was called for screening test this year...Not sure if this helps or confuses things...Jo

Thanks for the info Jo. When you mention the tessera sanitaria, are you talking about the blue plastic card? If so, this is slightly different. In our ASUR, they give you a white slip of paper called a libretto sanitaria (as well as getting the blue plastic tessera sanitaria). Did you get one of these? If you did, what is the expiry date? Thanks in advance for the info!

My PdS - granted for 5 years - has just run out. I retained my British citizenship when I married an Italian in 1966 , am retired and I am resident here.My small Comune contacted me last week and asked me to take my Permesso di Soggiorno together with two 'marche da bollo', each for €14.62, and they would prepare my Certificate for Permanent Residency. It was delivered today together with the letter notifying me that I was within the law and therefor have the right to permanent residency. They have retained my now 'out of date' PdS. Next stepwill be ASL - but my Libretto Saniatario doesn't run out for another 18 months....I have scanned the two documents onto Word, which should be useful 'anywhere' in Italy as the European and Italian references to this legal right are clearly stated on each. (BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW I CAN POST THEM HERE - can anyone help? ) But if I can, there is no reason why copies can't be made of this form and letter to show  'Jobsworths' anywhere who clearly aren't capable of doing their jobs properly. Can't cut and paste or link Documents here, but if  copies are of any use to anyone, send me a PM and I'll copy them to you via e-mail.   

Don't you have Italian citizenship through marriage prior to 1983?  If so, you shouldn't need  a Certificate for Permanent Residency.  You just need to have your Italian citizenship recognized.

 In the past, you used to loose your UK and other nationalities if you opted for another citizenship through marriage. Nowadays, things have changed and most countries accept dual nationality. I don't know whether this would be of any benefit to you Carole, but it may be worthwhille investigating.As for the cases from other members, I think that in most cases they were under retirement age (65) and not related to an Italian national. This is where those changes introduced in 2007 are a pain to sort out. Also, I looked a bit the information available and it looks as if there are about 10,000 laws, decrees, instructions, with variations for each "Comune" to interpret and this has created a real maze of bureaucracy to sort out.

I had the opportunity to accept Italian Citizenship when I married in Milano in 1966. I could have been issued with ID card, Passport etc. and would have had to give up my British   Citizenship and my British Passport - something I was not willing to do with all the unrest in Italy at that time. With tanks on the streets surrounding the Milan University  Quarter, the Red Brigade, kidnap and murder of Aldo Moro, Bologna bomb etc.  there was NO way I was giving up my passport!When we moved to the UK in the mid 70's we registered with the Italian Consulate but I registered as the British wife of an Italian Citizen. All my Italian documents of the time showed me as Inglese. This has recently been an advantage with regard to Italian tax liabilities on my UK company pension which is paid here. The Ufficio Delle Entrate has accepted that as I am, and always have been, a British Citizen - then they have NO fiscal claim on my pension as that is taxed in the UK. So - my local Comune was aware of all this and that' is why I now have a Permanent  Permesso di Soggiorno which is entitled:ATTESTAZIONE DI SOGGIORNO PERMANENTEPER I CITTADINI DELL'UNIONE EUROPEA(Ai sensi dell'art. 16 del decreto legislativo n. 30 del 6 febbraio 2007)The certificate lists the following:Vista la documentazione esibita a corredo della richiesta, atta a provare le condizioni previste dalla legge per il roconoscimento del diritto di soggiorno permanente in Italia; - Visto l'art. 16 del D.Lgs. 6 febbraio 2007, n. 30; - Vista la circolare del Ministero del Interno 6 Aprile 2007, n. 19; - Visti gli atti d'ufficio e considerato che l'interessato/a risulta in posesso delle condizionepreviste dal decreto legislativo n. 30, del 6 febbraio 2007, per lìacqisizione del diritto al soggiornopermanente;ETC. ETC.The accompanying letter quotes the OGGETTO as being issued under ART.2 - Legge 241/90 and D. LGS. n. 30/2007! 

Yes, understand the historical aspect, but for the last 17 years Italy has allowed dual citizenship.  That's why I don't understand why one now (not decades ago) wouldn't just have their Italian citizenship through marriage recognized?  Seems much simpler.  As you mentioned on the old forum, you already have Italian citizenship (just not officially recognized):"I was married in 1966 and I automatically became an Italian Citizen as the wife of an Italian. I was entitled to an Italian Passport which I declined and I retained my British nationality and passport - thus I had dual nationality. "Or is the tax advantage so great it outweighs the added bureaucracy?  

I am not sure why this subject was started but here is my experience.  My permesso ran out last year along with my registration for my GP and my UK passport.  A big problem as I was in hopital here in italy at the time.  Anyway A friend of mine did some checking, as normally you have to go to the local Questura to renew any documentation,  but remeber this is Italy and no, we were told to go to my local comune, which I did.  The young lady was extremely helpful and issued my new permesso immediatley at no cost, and it is now of permanent status. My registration with the GP was not so straightforward as my local office would only issue it for one year.  on the expiery of this I then went to the main office where I explained the situation and advised them that I did not have proof of pension from the Uk.  I was told it was not a problem that I was now a permanent resident and the registration for the GP would be for 5 years. I have to renew it then as I will be 65yrs and entitled to the same service as Italina pensioners, ( all female Italians are over 65 for this service).  I am not sure why everyone is talking about privat insurance cover, I have not found this necessary.  While I was in hospital last year (for 7 Months) I did not have to pay anything and when attending outpatients now I only pay what they call the ticket charge, this  is normal here in Italy and everyone pays it unless they have retired.  You also have to pay for some tests and x rays depending on what they are for.  I have to say I cannot fault the health service here, give me Italy every time.Just a quick one for those who have not had their plastic  'tessera'  blue cards, you can apply for these on line to your local office, mine arrived in about 10days.Hope this is of some help 

Hi Pauline - this thread started as some of us are being denied inscription to the health service or only being granted 12 months despite us being permanent residents too. Are you in Marche and if so which comune and ASUR area please? It is very useful for my ongoing fight to know this. Thanks

Hello PennyI realise that  this post is about healthcare in Marche but I have a similar problem living in Lunigiana.I am not yet pensionable age which may be relevant. I have been resident here for 6 years and last year aquired my permanent residency certificate. I have a blue plastic carta sanitaria which expires in 2013.The small paper card, which I was given when I registered with my doctor, expired in October last year and I was taken off the computer. I went  along to renew it with my residency certificate and they said that I needed a copy of my income tax return in order to be re registered with my doctor. I took a copy and everything was fine.Yesterday I received a letter saying that whatever I produced wasn't sufficient (this was October it is of course now  10 months later) and I need to go down and see them to find out what else they need.I am interested in the legal position can you tell me where I could find the relevant documentation for this that you referered to at the beginning of this postThank you in advance for your helpCharlotte 

This is such a nightmare isn't it? Have a look at this post: http://www.italymag.co.uk/community/post/circulars-and-decrees-demonstra...  You might need to join the Marche Healthcare group but that is eay - it's an open group.