Ram's activity

Frankly Im getting a bit p(%ssed off with Grillo - it's fine having a rant and beingin opposition, but he's being a prat now.  If he is leader then be leader, dont say 'Im not a leader' and then not allow anyone else to lead.   He's come out with such a huge variety of nonsense that abolishing unions is hardly unexpected.  Of course he cant - he cant do 90% of his programme without tearing up the constitution and starting again.   I find it deeeply undemocratic that his party which took 28% of the vote wants absolute power.  It should get 28% of the vote, which would give it no power at all in the Italy we have.  It may be thelargest single party but Italy doesnt and has never worked on anything but coalitions and they are sanctioned by the constitution.   Grillo will have to march on Rome and start over if he wants to do a tenth of what he says, and even those who voted for him regard the constitution as sacrosanct.  It was inevitable that teh first two laws promulgated by the M5S MP's on Monday were a referendum on the euro and legalisation of cannabis.  Its all going to go very pearlike.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21670779 Now Giambrones apparently mixed up in mafia stuff.... 

Gaia, we shall have to agree to disagree! but the Lateran treay has been reconfirmed precisely to keep the Vatican onside - afterall the DC parties were merely a mouthpiece for the Vatican for 50 years.   To say that an Italian govt does not need Vatican support is wholly bizarre!  It is only in the last 10 years that teh vatican in its non-political role (dont get me started on this) - has not specifically told its congregation how to vote.  I can provide a list as long as your arm of churches that charge for entrance and of museums that are free.   Its true the Italian govt does not pay for regular maintenance of churches, but it does pay for restoration under the Belli Arte and other funding mechanisms.   The facts are there if you seek them out - its just that govt and the Vatican would prefer we didnt know just how symbiotic is their relationship. 

THanks for your reply Gaia - I have to say it is you who is missing the whole story.  - The Lateran treaty was not to repay the Vatican for the loss of the Papal States, it was a blunt instrument Mussolini used to buy Vatican support.  In  it, Italy recognised the Pope as a head of state.   The Vatican became an independent state within Mussolini's Italy.  And that remains today.  Therefore every time Papa steps out of his front door he becomes a visiting head of state in Italy and the Italians foot the bill.  You can see - if you ask repeatedly  - the costs from parliament of his jaunts.  Landing at Fiumicino, he has to get to the Vatican - via Air force helicopter, security, and so on.  When he leaves the Vatican we pay.  When he went to Palermo a couple of years ago the bill was 4 million euros - its not as if the Sicilians had a choice, his visit was 'announced' by the Vatican and under the rules as a visiting  head of state he gets the works, including 40 grands worth of flowers to cover the stage (200000 euros) erected for the papal mass - and so on.  ANd that happens every time he goes on walkabout.   Berlusconi even reinforced the Lateran treaty a few years ago in a pathetic attempt to buoy his support.  So it is a bit ingenuous to believe what the Vatican preaches on this, they are after all, past masters at misinformation.    The church does have alot of buildings- that belong to the church, not to Italians, but it is the Italians who have to maintain them.  The Church at the last count has not given one cent to the reconstruction of the churches in Aquila for example.   Where I live 4 million was spent by the ITalians restoring a church that remains shut because the parish priest will not allow it to be used by other groups, and wont even permit a charity fashion show on it steps because he disagrees with it.  That, unfortuately is the perverse power teh Church has. The tourists who spend and go to Rome are art lovers - they pay handsomely to visit the Vatican museum where the state recieves nothing, not even the IVA on the ticket price.   Religious tourists stay in religious hotels which pay no IVA and no IMU even though they are 'strutture ricettive' to all effects and purposes, thereby creating unfair competition and a void in the recipts of 117000000 a year only in avoided IVA.  (an estimated 800.0000000 in IMU)   The Church has a wealth of billions - and a fair bit of it is liquid - although the IOR, banks and secretive systems of the Vatican will never let us know how much.   It is reluctant to spend any of this money,  hoarding it for some unknown future spending - even the Caritas, as you say, is lamenting that it has no centralised funding source and is being bled dry.   Personally, if Grillo campaigned for the immediate cessation of the Lateran Treaty, and the reincorpration of the Vatican he would get my vote. 

Nobody would ever be elected if they were not populist.  It is unthinkable that in any democracy an unpopular person would be voted in.  So, populism IS the democratic principle - otherwise Berlusconi would not have won so many times.  Gaia - Im sure you speak from the heart, but the Vatican costs Italians and Italy millions and millions - we are at the behest of the Vartican to pay for everything.  transport, security, even flowers for gods sake.  It is completely false to say that the Vatican is no burden on the state.  The Church doesnt even pay to restore its own buildings, or pay tax on them.   If the Vatican got no benefit do you think they would have hung onto it so tenaciously?   A biased blog does not negate the facts. Tourists bringing in money? Yes, but pilgrims dont.- speak to any bar owner in Rome and they despair of pilgrims - thermos and a pack of sandwiches doesnt help much!  Berlusconi has never taken 70% of the vote.  This time he took 30.5%, last time he took less than 35%

So this mess has cost 300.000.000 euros.  The pope resigning will cost Italy another 6 - 8 million thanks to the Lateran Treaty, - anyone got ANY ideas to save money?

I think Bersani will probably get it, but without an outright majority.  Grillo will get enough to force issues - and at least do something on electoral reform (along wiith the Montini) before the government falls.  Then  I think Bersani will go and Renzi will come along, and take all the centre ground adn win a decent majority by next Xmas. 

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-21534122

Hi - a general rule of thumb to follow:  To sell property in Italy you must be a licenced estate agent - this means passing exams and having insurance and all that.  You must be registered at the Chamber of Commerce and the REA, and you must be registered for IVA (VAT) SO - a Brit with a nice website is probably not an Italian estate agent.  The legal information must be on the front page of the website - including IVA number etc.  If your agent is a 'property finder' and is taking commission it is illegal.  The agent must be cited in the act of sale otherwise you will have a fine of up to 15000 euros for false declaration in a public act, and you can also lose your new property and go to jail under the new laws.  

If the prophecies are right then the next is the last, although the interim Bagnasco is from Rome and called Pietro so it may be that we dont even get to 20 March before Rome is destroyed......