I am keen to know, in the current

06/10/2016 - 18:11

I am keen to know, in the current period, as 2 Australians, fully self funded retirees, of 64 years, fit and healthy, are we able to buy property in Italy? We have no EU connections, and I do know of 1 similar Australian couple who did buy and renovate a ruin, but this was 10 years ago, and I believe things have changed. We have had conflicting advice from several quarters. We are very keen to buy a (mostly or fully ) renovated apartment, in Todi , Umbria, or nearby. Thankyou for any information, gratefully received.

Topic

Property

Comment

hi, I am of Todi, I work for 18 years to foreigners buying in Italy, mainly in the mortgage industry, and clearly I have a good understanding of my city and Real Estate agencies in Todi . Between Italy and Australia is in effect a reciprocity treaty, and therefore there are no legal problems for the purchase. Count me available for each study.Ugo , by www.lifeinitaly.it and www.todiscountry.com/todiscounty/todiscountry.htm

Ugo, I am from the united States and also wish to know if it is a problem for me to buy in Italy. I am interested in the town of Casoli in Chieti.

Thanks Ugo, for your prompt reply. I have heard from the consulate, I think, that perhaps we can only buy " not pre-existing " property. I'm not sure what that means. Have you heard that?And I believe I can't buy a car as a non resident, and I don't wish to be a full time resident, but just visit for up to 3 months at a time. If we can't buy a car, then that restricts greatly where we can buy. It needs to be somewhere with good access to transport, like Passignano sul Trasimeno. Any advice for this place?

Hy CrystalBay, <not pre-existing> , means that it is NOT already builded , that is, you can only buy a new building - however, this information is no longer valid, since the agreement exceeded by reciprocity, the Department of Foreign Affairs dated 23 November 2005 - Here is the full text : AUSTRALIAE' verificata la condizione di reciprocità.Acquisti di immobiliL'accordo del 1967 (vedi D.P.R. 9 dicembre 1970, n. 1430), prevede, all'art. 28, quantosegue:1 cittadini di ciascuno dei due Paesi e le persone giuridiche riconosciute in ciascuno deidue Paesi avranno, nel territorio dell'altro Paese, gli stessi diritti dei cittadini dell'altroPaese e delle persone giuridiche riconosciute in detto Paese per quanto riguarda lapossibilità di:(a) acquisire, sia per compravendita che diversamente,(b) possedere e godere, e,(c) disporre, sia per vendita, che per donazione, per testamento o altrimenti di:cose mobili ed immobili, ivi inclusi in particolare azioni, obbligazioni, quote e diritti inazioni. Non sarà applicato alcun limite all'esercizio dei diritti sopra elencati eccettoquelli dovuti:1) a ragioni di interesse nazionale o in adempimento alle leggi in vigore in ciascunPaese; o2) alla mancanza dei requisiti di registrazione che in base a una legge di un particolareStato o Territorio dell'Australia, debbono essere soddisfatti da una persona giuridicariconosciuta fuori da quello Stato o Territorio.Il Governo di ciascuno dei due Paesi accorderà ai cittadini e alle persone giuridichedell'altro trattamento uguale a quello accordato ai propri cittadini e persone giuridichein materie riguardanti la locazione di case, edifici, locali e fondi per uso commerciale,industriale e agricolo, salvo, in quanto possano ancora esistere, limitazioni per laconcessione in locazione a stranieri di beni immobili di proprietà della Corona.In relazione a tale modifica, il Servizio del Contenzioso Diplomatico e dei Trattati,ha spedito in data 1/12/2005 al Consiglio Nazionale del Notariato una lettera in cui,in riferimento ad una precedente comunicazione degli Uffici del C.N.N., si rilevache " ... questo servizio ha provveduto a verificare l’esistenza della piena capacitàgiuridica in materia di compravendite immobiliari da parte dei cittadini australiani 110nresidenti in Italia, in forza dell'articolo 28 dell'Accordo bilaterale di emigrazione edinvestimento concluso tra Italia ed Australia a Callberra il 26 settembre 1967 edentrato iu vigore l'otto luglio 1971

Many thanks Ugo! I'm not up to speed with detailed Italian but I'll translate it as best I'm able with help! So am I correct in saying that we should have no problems buying an older place and possibly updating kitchen and bathroom? That's all good news though.Yes, we understand we will have to rent a car. We usually do that now, but not for long periods. I've looked at your website link, but there wasn't anything suitable for me. I'm trying to find an apartment or ground to sky apartment, for about €130,000, in the historic centre of Todi, or similar, or Passignano Sul Trasimeno.

have some real estate agency with apartments at 130k or near 130k , in Todi,please mailme , from contact form on www.lifeinitaly.it web-site yr's email address , i give you the propertis links and RE Agent , coordinates

Hy Crystalbay , regarding car - if you do not agree to have a Residenza Elettiva ( Permit of Stay tipe that do not allow to you to have job in Italy , but only live with your's income received from original country of residence ) see> http://www.lifeinitaly.it/Inglese/italyresidenceguide.htmthe only possibility for you is RENT a Car - and the only possibility is buy in a town -for passignano sul trasimeno, see > http://www.viadeicolli.com/

Ugo, I have the same question but am from the united States!

Sheri, for Non-EU citizens check out http://www.renault-eurodrive.com/en/ for car lease up to six months.Also, be advised we (US citizens) are limited to 90 day stays in the EU without getting a three month extension from an EU Consulate in the US. After 90 days we are required to exit the EU for 90 days before returning. You can apply for residency if it suits your aims and want to stay at least 183 days at a time.Fred

Hello Sheri Ann, absolutely no problem for USA citizens , in buy in italy - for more see > http://www.lifeinitaly.it/Inglese/Purchasing_Real_Estate_in_Italy.htm

Ugo, thank you!!! Wonderful news!!

Hi Ugo, I am from South Africa. Also interested in buying property in Italy and possibly utilising it at a leter state as a B&B. Are there any problems that I should be aware of? Thank you!

Hi Adele , no problem http://www.conscapetown.esteri.it/Consolato_Capetown/Templates/Pagina_Intermedia.aspx?NRMODE=Published&NRNODEGUID=%7b6F283D7F-296B-4C9F-971B-C6231796194F%7d&NRORIGINALURL=%2fConsolato_Capetown%2fMenu%2fI_Servizi%2fFare_affari_in_Italia%2f&NRCACHEHINT=NoModifyGuest

Thank you!

Hi CrystalBay, from a fellow Aussie who has been living in the EU for 19 years, but our case is different as we both benefit from dual nationality and EU passports.bmy advice is to contact your nearest Italian Consulate and enquirer about "elective residency visa" and long term stays. This blog from another fellow Aussie is also very useful https://bagnidilucca.wordpress.com/2010/01/31/getting-a-visa-for-a-long-stay-in-italy/There are no restrictions regarding the purchase of property and there are also reciprocal taxation and social security agreements in place, although you will not be able to get health cover, you will need to do this privately.As for purchasing property... I would be careful about purchasing an apartment, particularly the old ones that have no body corporate and are not properly organized as condominiums. Some property owners allow their units to go into disrepair and this affects the whole building. I would opt for a small town house, called "terratetto or terracielo". It would be all yours and you do not have t deal with neighbours...And if you haven't done it already, enroll in an intensive Italian course...Good luck with your plans!

Thankyou, Gala Pacidia. Very useful information. I have been studying Italian for some years now, so am reasonably fluent, but I wouldn't trust myself to understand all the finer details of buying in Italy, naturally. I'm a bit concerned about your comment re older apartments though. How do I avoid that but still find a place in an historic centre that I'd like for convenience, as I wouldn't have a car?

There are plenty of townhouses in historical centers throughout Italy. Here are some examples for Todi, but you may make a search using the name of any other town http://www.casa.it/vendita-residenziale/immobile-terratetto+terracielo-in-todi,+pg,+umbria/lista-1If you want an apartment, you will have to research who the other owners are, whether they live or rent their place to others, the general maintenance of the property.... It may be a bit of a nightmare as there are plenty of buildings which are not properly maintained. No restrictions regarding purchase of property by Australians, that is ancient news!!!! I know quite a few Australians who have purchased without problems.

Thanks for the link. I'll have to be ultra careful then re apartments! As retirees, though very fit, we'd prefer not too many stairs! With property, it's the more recent restrictions in Australia re buying property and the law of reciprocity, which I need clarity on. I know many Aussies have bought previously with no problems. Hoping we can too! All advice gratefully received!

CrystalBay, you may already be aware of this as I assume you've traveled there but I would be wary of Todi if you're not wanting too many stairs! While you may be able to find a property without stairs (or very few), the town itself sits on a HUGE hill and is steep even within the town. Our poor little Citroen C1 had a difficult time driving up the hill approaching Todi (about an 18% grade) and then you have to park below the town (unless your property has a garage or parking area for residents) and take the funicular type lift (paid parking area) up. It's a lovely place but we found it daunting to travel in and out every day. Even to reach the "new" part of Todi requires dealing with the hills every single time. I realize it may just be our own issue but thought it worth mentioning as we just returned from staying in Todi. I appreciate your conversation on buying property as we are in the same boat (residency- and tax-wise). Your topic is relevant to us and we were grateful to read what Ugo had to say so. thank you. We are looking to buy in the Spello area.

Spello, is same as Todi , and in any case , in Todi hava a parking on the city named "mercataccio" , about 100 meter from the central place . So , Passignano is surely better , anothe place to see is Panicale , moreower , this is umbria > http://www.lifeinitaly.it/italiasegreta/regioni/umbria/Umbria.htm

Thanks. I understand and the hill towns are what we love about Umbria! Spello isn't quite as steep and the property we are looking at has resident parking close by that is on a flat area. I was just concerned that people who don't want stairs would still be dealing with the issue even if their property was on one level. We were considering flat towns like Sansepolcro, Citta di Castello and Umbertide but just like the area around Spello and Assisi more. I appreciate all of your information regarding taxes and residency, it is very helpful for us as we enter the purchase process.

Umbria is famous for being one Italian region where many Brits find their loved landscapes of Yorkshire, but the true Umbria, for Umbrians, it is precisely an inaccessible area, made of castles and small villages perched on the mountains, so it Sansepolcro considered, a Tuscan city, as well as many small towns that surround the northwest part of lake Trasimeno. And while the hills surrounding Umbertide, densely populated by English and Dutch, can be considered Umbria, agricultural plains around the Città di Castello , they have within themselves one Umbrian spirit, much less the inaccessible valleys that are crossed, traveling for that road all curves ascents and descents, called Bocca Trabaria, which leads to Gubbio, the last bastion of Umbria to the Marches.

We visted Gubbio and it was spectacular but we are city people (having lived in New York City, Los Angeles and Chicago) and want to be near Perugia. We love all of Umbria and can't wait to move there! We are Americans, by the way.

You've had many American customers, some are in Umbria, Perugia around, but most have houses in the countryside, some have been in Umbria for a few years, and then moved in Puglia, other beautiful Italian region , full of monuments .. and with the sea .. >> http://www.lifeinitaly.it/italiasegreta/regioni/puglia/Puglia.htm

Thanks for your advice Mthmoses. I have been to Todi only once, for a day, about 7 years ago. I do recall it is on a steep hill, but we are going to spend 3 weeks there in Sept. to fully re- acquaint ourselves while we look around the area. Spello we also stayed in for a week on that same trip, and liked that very much also. We have friends buying in Todi right now, so we are in touch with their research as to where to buy also. Città Delle Pieve is lovely, as is Passignano sul Trasimeno, but obviously it's not a hill top town, but is scenic and has great train access. It's always useful to hear what places others are considering, so thanks for your input also.

You may also want to try this website: www.welcomservice.itWe rented from Paola during our stay in Todi and she told us she is also an agent. She has properties in the area listed on her site which may be useful to you. She speaks great English as well!

Yes, I have already had contact with her, and we are renting an apartment in Todi in Sept from her agency. Still researching towns.....

Hi again! I have not heard of any restrictions regarding the purchase of Italian property by Australians. Some years ago, there were some problems as a result of some type of retaliation, but those were lifted ages ago. If you want a good independent Aussie contact, my advice would be to write to Debra Kolkka, who has helped and given plenty of useful tips to lots of people. She is an award winning blogger (winner of an Italy Magazine competition) and she is not involved into estate or anything commercial. She owns property in Bagni di Lucca In Tuscany, and comes to Italy from Australia twice a year. She may also be able to tell you how she managed to buy a car here and the type of visa she had to obtain. Just contact her through her blog and here is what she wrote about a visit to Todi some time ago https://bagnidilucca.wordpress.com/2012/10/06/a-trip-to-todi/I have been in Todi a few times and it is a lovely town (well...many towns in Italy are lovely, difficult to choose a favourite one... We also know quite well the Trasimeno villages, as it is a day trip for us from Bagni di Lucca and my husband's family originated from one of those towns (Panicale), so we often go for lunch there.My advice regarding apartments stands and not only because of the stairs... Most old properties have plenty of them. We own a miller's house on the river at Bagni di Lucca and all those stairs certainly keep you fit. But it is a lovely 17th century building with 80cm stone walls in an irreplaceable position. Worth the extra effort.another piece of advice. Try to keep away from ruins. They are a money pit. There are plenty of properties in reasonable condition and at a reasonable price available in Italy at the moment. This is a buyer's market. Good luck!

Thanks . I'm taking note of this information and appreciate the links and advice given.

Hi Gala,Thanks for the link to Debra's blog, which I have read and found worthwhile. I am not interested in renovating an old property, our less, a ruin, but more interested in an apartment, or a terra-tetto as you have suggested. If you owned the top floor apartment, this would be OK too, I assume, as perhaps more problems occur from the roof area than lower floors? We will not be using a mortgage either. I will need a good notaio to advise me whether I can buy property and help me with all the legalities of course. Do you know where I can look for one?My husband and I are returning to Umbria in Sept specifically to search for property, maybe in Todi, or Passignano sul Trasimeno. We would like to have made prior contact with a notaio before we arrive, to make the most of the 8 weeks we will be there.

Some english speacking Notaries in Italy > http://www.lifeinitaly.it/Servizi_Immobiliari/avvocati-e-notai.php

Hi again, CrystalBay, I think that what you need is to find an English speaking lawyer. The notary' stole in Italy only covers part of what you require http://www.italybuyingguide.com/content/italy-role-notary-italyAlso, sorry, but buying a top floor does not guarantee that you will not have problems with the whole of the building. And you should also consider that the roof does not belong to you alone, even if you own the top floor. It is common property. If you do not have a well organized body corporate ( a rare find in Italy, particularly in small towns) well... I would not touch it...Good luck with your search. This is a buyer's market at the moment, so make the most of it

We did like Passignano sul Trasimeno very much, even though it has only a small historic centre now. But we have been told that there are times when there are swarms of flying insects, not mosquitoes, that can make being outdoors very difficult. Do you know about this?

This may also be of help http://www.exfin.com/foreign-mortgage-italy

Excellent and comprehensive information , Gala Placidia < there is currently no wealth tax in Italy>the IMU is a ghost fee .. (there 'but not seen)< Note that you will be treated by Italian law as a resident of Italy when you spend 183 days or more throughout the year (non consecutive days included) in the country.>in front of each foreign national home in Italy, she is sitting an official of 'registry, busy counting the days of residence< non-residents are required to pay tax in Italy on their Italian rental income.>Certainly the occupation of the territory in Italy is taxed as a rental!it is strange if you are non-resident, you can not work in Italy - the Italian immigration law - however it is required to pay for the product income - income produced as?< Gains from the sale of property held for less than five years are taxed as income>This, among many fees that actually exist in Italy, I had never heard - I now call immediately Renzi and Padoan, is a great idea!< Capital gains are calculated as selling price less acquisition costs and related expenses.>this tax was called INVIM, and she was taken more than 20 yearsThe analysis of all the other useful statements, refer to the period of Carnival,rolling on the floor laughing, summer is tiring and makes you sweat.

Well, Ugo, we are still paying in Italy a fuel tax which was originally raised to finance the Italy-Libya war... Almost a century ago... That says it all

Gala , all italian pay eve the BANANA TAX , issued by a Umberto primo re d'italia - BUT anione pay the INVIM , and oter taxex invented by this Australian's - Yet if you like it pay, I invite you to write a letter to the agency of the Italian revenue and to Equitalia, they will be happy to receive these your donations

As fully self funded retirees, we are not looking to work, not looking to stay more than 130 days in Italy per year, nor to rent out our owned apartment. It is disappointing, and hard to understand, why we cannot buy a car in Italy. We are happy to pay registration and insurance taxes, but the Italian government apparently doesn't want the money!

the Italian Government, this time, does not matter - the problem is the law on compulsory insurance of cars in Italy, which requires the availability of the customer in case of accident, if you do not have a legal residence, the insurance company that you must pay the damage, he does not know where to find you.

Crystal Bay, other foreigners, including Australians, who do not reside permanently in Italy, but have a permesso di soggiorno have managed to buy and register a car in Italy. This is why I have indicated to you to contact Debra Kolkka, as she has first hand knowledge of the matter.Ugo, the incoherence in Italian bureaucracy and high taxes is what has made us decide not to live here permanently.

for Galabut living in Italy creates to you so many problems, which is why we insist to suffer? Not Italian Permit of stay = permesso di soggiorno in Italia , is issued to non ressident peoples in Italy - this according the immigration Italian laws - see > http://www.poliziadistato.it/articolo/225(click on flags in the upper right, to change the language ) for CrystalbayI always suggest to everyone to take the choice of residence in Italy, makes life easier

Ugo, I do not have any problems in Italy because I do not live here permanently. Italy is a lovely country with a terrible bureaucracy. And my husband is Italian...If you carefully read Crystal Bay's posts, they are not considering residing in Italy either. They only want to spend some holiday time.

This is all true, Gala Placidia. And we don't want the world wide property tax if we had Residenza, nor the other hassles. We have done our sums and have decided that we will have the convenience of a car, but not the hassles, by hiring for the months we are there in Italy. We are used to hiring there already. It's not a great cost in any case.

Wise decision!

Ahh , Gala , l'ammore ! :) yes , i read crystal , but , as him NEED BUY A CAR ... the only solution is , take a residence i Italy .Other wise they can Buy an Horse :) , non Libia war fuel tax , no car insurance , no car property tax ( the bollo! ) ... only a bit of grass (not smoke!), a big bag to collect the fruits, no environmental pollution, and if it breaks, him can make the excellent Mortadella...

I am keen to know, in the current

Comment

Latest property in Italy

Related Questions