IMU update for non-residents

04/16/2012 - 12:00

I just posted this on my local forum, but thought it might be useful to others here.Since the weather is dull, cold and wet, I thought I'd ruin the day completely by going to my comune to get some information about how much I will have to pay for this new IMU tax. And ruined it has been...I thought what I have learned might be helpful to others who do not have 'residenza' in Italy. Please bear in mind that the figures I give are for my comune, and there will probably be differences from comune to comune.As a non-resident, my house is classified as an 'abitazione disponibile' and therefore you can forget the deduction of 200 euros mentioned in another thread, and payment in 3 instalments announced today (only for 'prima casa' residents).For a tiny house, allegedly 60 square metres, but I defy anyone to find all 60 of them, my annual payment has gone from 84 euros to an estimated 206 euros. I say estimated, because between now and December both the comune and the state can up the amount, and no doubt will. While it's still a long way from what we pay in the UK, it's a big jump and TARSU (refuse charge) is not included in this. I thought I'd read somewhere that the new tax included TARSU, but must have got this wrong.I have to pay half by 18 June, and then I have to check with the comune again, before 17 December when the next payment is due, what the revised figure is for the second payment. In previous years, the notification arrived with a blank 'bollettino' to pay at the Post Office or a bank. This year, my comune is not sending out notifications because this new tax requires a more complicated form of three pages and Pacentro decided that it couldn't afford to send them out. So I have to go to the Agenzia delle Entrate website, download the said form, fill it in and take it to the PO or bank to pay it. No big deal, but you have to know that's what needs to be done. I haven't checked the site yet but will post the link when I've found it. Thought I'd post this while it was fresh in my mind.As I say, other comuni may be better organised, but it's down to us to get this right and pay on time.Hope this is helpfulBuona serataSGHhttp://www.susangirellihill.euItalian and English language servicesTweet me @SGirelliHillFind me on Facebook: Susan Girelli HillLinkedIn: Susan Girelli Hill

Comment

Within ICI there was a reduction for the condition of the property if it was 'inagibilità o inabitabilità'. I read on one of the IMU help sites that there is no provision within IMU for this reduction. But it may be granted according to the discretion of the Comune and decreto legislativo 15 dicembre 1997, n. 446 is cited as possibly the article 0n which to rely. Anyone know whether in practice this reduction has carried over from ICI into IMU. My Comune is the now not so new Fermo in Le Marche? Oh yes, and we are non-resident. Thank you.

Good question - I have no answer. The reduction for the house 'being under reconstruction' (with an approved concessione) is/was certainly dependent on the opinion of the comune.

I went to my comune and asked them to calculate my IMU on our apartment - A2 - where the previous ICI was 632Euros. They gave me the following calculation : Rendita value + 5% x 160 x 10.6% = 1191,02. As you can see, that is some increase! This is 10.6% because I am not resident here. I have 2 questions for you Fillide. The first is what percentage would I be for an A2 house where I am resident on the anagrafe? I have looked at the list, but I can't see which percentage applies to that house? It says, 4.00% abitazione principale, pertinenze dell'abitazione principale classificate exclusavamente nelle categorie catastali C2, C6 and C7, 2.00% fabbricati rurali, 5.00% abitazioni concesse con contratto di locazione concordato in base all'articolo2 , 5.00% sola abitazione concessa in comodato gratuito a parente in linea primo grado, 7.90% fabbricati locali con contratto regolarmente registrato per almeno 90 giorni durante 2012, 7.90% abitazione residenza anagrafica di cointestario, 10.6% fabbricati di catastale A1 ad A9 per non residenti and 8.50% aliquota base! Second question, it says I have to pay this with Modello F24. Is this the incredibly long form on the Agenzia delle Entrate site? help please Fillide!

I've been looking into this a bit too, Londonlass, and whilst I can't shed any light on your first question, I think you are right that the vast sums must be paid on the form F24 you mention. However, I think the form only looks so dauntingly long because it is in triplicate, so it's really only an A4 size form, and requires you to fill out your anagraphical details, and the amoung due, with the appropriate codes for your comune. Three times. Not sure if the amount has to be apportioned between state and local taxes. For my comune, the calculator does specify how much of the final amount goes where, but is less forthcoming on how to achieve this. I think I will be throwing myself on the mercy of the comune and/or post office. For what it's worth, the hike in your Imu does seem a bit steep. As a non resident, mine has gone from E440 to E569, without allowing for December's bit.

Just picking up on the last couple of posts. As I said in my original post, you have to use the F24 in triplicate, but as fweather1 says, there's actually very little to complete. My comune gave me two codes to enter on the form along with the amount to pay against each one. Presumably the codes vary from place to place, to make sure the right comune gets the money, but each individual comune will be able to provide the relevant codes.

Thanks to everyone for helping clear up some of that! I will print off F24 and fill in as much as I can and then take it back to my comune to get the magic code for the apartment. Looking at Ram's reply for our house (prima casa) I will try and do the sum using 4% as the final number. I presume you meant 4% Ram, and not .4%? I would love it to be .4% but I can't be that lucky! Where does it say that you pay IMU on prima casa in 3 bites? I have not seen this written down. Is this so they have two chances to put it up rather than one?

If you were resident and it was your prima casa you would pay .4% as abitazione prinicipale minus 200 euros and minus 50 euros for any children under 26 who live at home. You must pay it by the F24 which you can download and go to your bank who will pay it. Bear in mind that if it is a second home you must pay half on 16 June and half on 16 December. If it is a first home you pay 1/3 on 16 June, 1/3 on 16 sept and 1/3 on 16 December.

Its 4 parts per 1000, so not 4% If you are not resident in Italy then you dont have prima casa - unfortunately you cant just elect to have prima casa - so if you are non resident ie havent done all the bureacratic hoop jumping, - then you will be seconda casa. The three tranches for prima casa was passed yesterday by parliament.

Thank you Ram! That makes it a lot better now! We are resident for the house, and it is prima casa proper, just not resident for the apartment - and I haven't even started on TARSU this year yet!!!

I think sometimes there is some confusion between the term 'prima casa' and your 'abitazione principale'. Just because you elected to buy the property with 'prima casa' tax reduction and took out residency in the proerty (as per the rules) doesn't necessarily mean it is your 'abitazione principale'. Let me give you an example: We now live in a rented apartment in another part of Italy. I own my house in Amandola (bought it with the prima casa agevolazione) and we currently have our residency there. I cannot pay 0.4% IMU nor claim the €200 reduction as I don't live in it full time any more (despite still having my residency there - we have only just moved). I have to pay the 0.76% instead. Apparently comunes have been advised not to accept families claiming one person lives at one address and their husband/wife at another too. Effectively the reduction is per family. There was a very good article in our local paper with a spreadsheet showing how it is all calculated here.

if you have moved you should have moved your residency. You are now domiciled at another address, but still resident in an address where you are not resident. If you get my drift. It all boils down to that you should reside where you are resident unless there is a good reason - study, work etc. The new laws on nuclear families are precisely that - you cant claim prima casa IMU in two houses in the same comune at the same time - if you are a family - law since yesterday! There are also new laws on divorced and separated couples as of today.

There is a bit which I haven't yet got my head around (as they say) - which is if you are anagrafically resident, in somebody (a cointestario?)'s house the rate is .79%. If this means what I have interpreted it as meaning (I'm probaly mistaken) this isn't going to hold up in EU law. For anybody (Italian citizens living abroad) inscribed on AIRE, there were some agevolazione determined yesterday, but not if you have rented out your 'prima casa'. It's still a mess.

>For anybody (Italian citizens living abroad) inscribed on AIRE, there were >some agevolazione determined yesterday, but not if you have rented out >your 'prima casa'. It's still a mess. I've just googled 'IMU e agevolazioni per iscritti all AIRE' and came up with this one http://www.corritalia.de/Dettaglio.26+M589349f1795.0.html As I understand quite a few are rather upset because there won't be any 'agevolazioni' for us :( so as not to discriminate against non-Italians who own properties abroad (I'm trying to work this one out!) It's one heck of a shock :o to me in terms of my having to pay council taxes here and there for a property that I don't really own yet, have never lived in, have never been able to make proper use of (e.g. rent some of it) and won't be able to make use of in the near future.

I agree, it's a minefield, and likely to see further amendments, but presumably you are not charging your father rent - you are permitting a parenti to use your portion of the house in 'comodita d'uso' - and the rules are different in this situation. Possibly the consulate have a tame commercialista on hand - but if he says 'boh', don't blame him, he is being honest! Welcome to Monti's profesisonal regime

Last time I paid ICI it was about €56 per year (very small house) So if I now get a discount of €200 as it's my only home and €50 discount for kids under 26 living at home (3) gives me another €150 credit, maybe they'll pay me? :)

Ram - we only just got here 10 days ago! We have yet to decide whether to change our residency or just our domicile for the first year. If we change our domicile only, we still have to pay the seconda casa rate on the house where we have residency. That was my point. qui già - if only! Actually you always got a discount so the 56 euro was probably after that and as IMU is more expensive than ICI I think you might owe them some more :-)

I thought this, but then I thought that it was more like that as resident in a cointestata house Id pay 0.4 for my bit, but then cointestatee would pay .79 for theirs. Or is that not possible?

That fool Alfano started off his election campaign saying that IMU on prima casa should be for one year only - and we just watched the spread go through the roof again. Fools.

It seems our IMU is likely to be a bit more than double what we currently pay - half to the comune and half to the state. It will probably be .79% but they will only be deciding in May!