IMU - F24 and calculations

05/24/2012 - 08:38

I've called the Comune and they told me that's all very clear on their website and they cannot provide website support. Bummer!So, I'm still not very clear about the rate I will have to pay, but as I've understood so far I would have to pay 0.76% of my share of the property (my father and his wife live there - I don't! - he owns 50% and I have the other 50% and live in UK).Is that 0.76%of the 'rendita catastale'? E.g.: if rendita catastale is for instance, 100 euros, then 100 x (0.76/100)?And there is a 'modulo F24' that I don't see on the Comune's website (though apparently it turns up ready to print once I include all the details).Does anybody know where else could I download the F24 to get an idea of what it looks like and information that's needed?

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Tax and Finance

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I forgot to mention that the Consulate in London do not provide information about IMU. Il the Comune (in Gaeta-LT) cannot help with working out my IMU (I don't understand why they cannot help; really baffled ) , I have to resort to a commercialista. But where can I find one? The Chamber of Commerce??? I found however a better form here http://www.amministrazionicomunali.it/imu/calcolo_imu.php which seems to me more complete than the one I saw on the Gaeta's Town Hall website (it includes 2nd home and other things).

have a look at this http://www.abruzzolutely.com/forum/Blah.pl?m-1337207240/s-3/#num3 and here http://www1.agenziaentrate.it/inglese/italian_taxation/payments_of_tax.htm :)

stevegwmonkseaton, have a look at this http://www.abruzzolutely.com/forum/Blah.pl?m-1337207240/s-3/#num3

Thanks for that Someone suggests www.calcoloimu.it/ the Abruzzo's forum so I'm checking with both calculators (www.calcoloimu.it/ and http://www.amministrazionicomunali.it/imu/calcolo_imu.php# ). >http://www1.agenziaentrate.it/inglese/italian_taxation/payments_of_tax.htm

That's great It's beginning to make sense and all come into place. Thank you very much for the links. ( I don't seem to be able to reach their telephone number 848.800.444 I've tried with and without the 0039 but no joy). >.. http://www.studiodelgaizopicchioni.it/ for a comercialista, but think if you know the rendita and use >one of the calc sites it will be near enough. I've found my reddito catastale and if all I need is to calculate IMU with the online calculator, then it should be all straightforward. I think and hope so.

Many thanks

... http://www.studiodelgaizopicchioni.it/ for a comercialista, but think if you know the rendita and use one of the calc sites it will be near enough.

Has the comune set its budget? If they havent yet decided the rate you will pay then they wont be able to help you. You shouldbe paying half of your third at .76 in June, the rest in December. If the comune decide to set a higher quota, then you pay the rest plus the difference in December.

>Has the comune set its budget? I have no idea. The only person who answered the phone at the IMU's office simply told me to go on the website and basical to get on with it!

I think the OFFICIAL form will be at agenzia entrata http://www.agenziaentrate.gov.it/wps/portal/entrate/home I have yet to find it, and our comune were unable to help (as yet !) deary deary me ! S

this might help http://www.civitanews.it/2012/05/25/calcolo-dellimu-e-predisposizione-del-modello-f24/

You can get the "modulo F24" at any bank.

I went last week and they didn't have one, I'll try again next week as I BELIEVE that they are in triplicate ? Carbon copied ? S

http://www.agenziaentrate.gov.it/wps/content/Nsilib/Nsi/Home/CosaDeviFar...

Cheers Ram, S

Well, I've just spoken to a couple of operators on the helplines at http://www.agenziaentrate.gov.it and, as I've discovered, there is a declaration to be made on income/properties et all and fill out PF/2012 by 30 September. Note: only parts RB (Quadro RB) and RN (Quadro RN) need filling out for non-residents, along with personal data ('Dati anagrafici'): http://www.agenziaentrate.gov.it/wps/content/nsilib/nsi/strumenti/modell... Unico PF/2012 software is here http://www.agenziaentrate.gov.it/wps/content/nsilib/nsi/home/cosadevifar... The IMU, instead, must be paid by 18 June for the first bit and the forms can be found here (as Ram pointed out in previous post--thank you :) ) http://www.agenziaentrate.gov.it/wps/content/Nsilib/Nsi/Home/CosaDeviFar... Good calculators can be found here http://www.calcoloimu.it/ and here http://www.amministrazionicomunali.it/imu

Just received our F24 and been on the Agenzia del Territorio to try and find out how much our house is worth - and they don't have any information on it in their archives! Great. So now how to I find out how much it is worth. We bought it for a pittance in 2005 and had it done up then but locals seem to make-up their own prices when they come to sell round here so how do I get its true worth and make sure we don't pay too much IMU?

Here in Bagni di Lucca the local taxes are now online, allegedly! OK, so I log on to htpp://bagnidilucca.aegonline.it and guess what? Firefox rejects the site as insecure because it does not comply with the security checks: www.aegonline.it uses an invalid security certificate. The certificate is not trusted because no issuer chain was provided. (Error code: sec_error_unknown_issuer) Great! So I use another browser where I can bypass this and create an account - but that's not the end of it, now I have go to the Kafka style office, take a lie detector test and recite all my ID card details from memory. THEN they give me a PIN! Maybe just maybe I might find some information online about my IMU (now also called IMP) - why can't they just send me a bill like they do for TARSU (this was late)? Apparently AEG have been employed to create the online service, but they have failed spectacularly, see this horror story: http://iltirreno.gelocal.it/lucca/cronaca/2011/01/09/news/cartelle-ici-e-tarsu-una-valanga-di-errori-1.2260961 I would like to know what 'Aliquota stabilita dal Comune' applies, it will probably be the maximum permitted, 0.96%, then I calculate IMU = %/100 x C x 168 where C is the catastale value. As a resident then it's 0.4% and you subtract €200 from the tax. Obvious really! I think I forgot to do ICI last year, no reminder of course, does anyone know what the overdue interest rate is for ICI/IMU/IMP?

This website is very good for caluclating IMU as it does all types, even for agricultural land: http://www.dossier.net/guida/calcolo_imu.htm Just remember that if your comune has not announced the quota for 2012 then use 0.76% for second homes etc and 0.4% for main homes which are the defualts on the site. Here is the new simplified form for IMU from the tax office: http://www.agenziaentrate.gov.it/wps/wcm/connect/726110004b5f85a9a6b4af6794f2c9de/F24+semplificato.pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CACHEID=726110004b5f85a9a6b4af6794f2c9de Rosanella - the Unico PF/2012 you refer to is the annual tax return (ie separate from the IMU declaration) which you may or may not need to complete. Just in case anyone thought they had yet another thing to fill out.

but if your comune hasnt fixed their ailoquota by 16 June, then you assume it is .76, and pay half that. Then when they have officially decided it is the maximum you will pay the other half plus the difference by 16 December.

From 1 June the new 'simplified' F24 is available from the Agenzia website. Its still as complicated as possible, but its only one page. however the tribute codes are now released, it is not clear who gets what - state or comune. At least they have announced that there will be no sanctions if the June payments are wrong!

This seems like a bit of a mess, I tried to get modulo F24 yesterday as I need to pay IMU in the next week as we are away. They gave me the old F24 which mentions ICI !! S

Twentyknots, you need your "rendita catastale", which appears on the"visura", not the cadastral value. THere is a lady called Fina, in a little office near the Tourist Office, on the main street, who can help. Ask at the Tourist Office and they will tell you. This year it is quite complicated. It is better to seek help, even if you have to pay a small amount. She may be able to advise you regarding your fine for not paying last year's ICI.

We must be very fortunate here in Friuli. Our commune website calculates the amount and then provides a modulo for your personal data. This then links to the F24 which is filled automatically with the correct codes and amounts. After printing this can be taken to the bank post office or agenzia entrate for payment. I transferred the data from this F24 to the F24 on my bank website and payed online. All in all this was much easier than I thought it would be. Steve

Same as Steve Jackie our comune works out ours even sends the bill to our UK home.

It has not been that complicated before; however, in the case of Bagni di Lucc and due to the recent elections, the previous council did not leave a clear percentage to use and it may be modified for the second semester. For this reason, you can only pay the first semester rates and adjust them when the second one is due. We hope that next year things will go back to normal and I also expect some changes in the procedure.

I beg to differ! Nowhere can I find how much is payable to the comune and how much to central govt. As this must be made clear on the new F24 I am stuck. If you were paying in one go you could put 0101 in the rateazione box - but you cant pay in one go this year so you must put in 0102, but if you are paying in 3 tranches, that is not valid either, but there is no code for 3 tranches...... etc etc etc

The clerk at my bank actually wrote in '0101' in the rateazione box..............I assumed he knew more than me ! (easily done!) S

Yes, in our case, the bank was also very helpful.

As you cannot pay in one go this year - (conguaglio in December) the bank should have written 0102 in the box - and in December you would write 0202... As I said - its a mess. (Im being a knowall because my commercialista has a software for this and so I had a lesson!) However, in the case of a second house it is 50% to the comune and 50% to the state - codes EL and ER.

This is EXACTLY why this forum is so good..................there is LOTS of invaluable help and info here......... I'll write in 0102......... Where are those headache tablets ! S

Have calculated the IMU for my holiday home - but how do I pay from the UK?

Call a friend who will pay in ITaly - you must pay by F24 or similar in a bank or PO. (In italy obviously. YOu have until 18 JUne for the first tranche. So fill in the form, email to a willing person who will pay on your behalf and you reimborse them. If you have a willing bank manager it can be debited directly from your account.

Already got an italian friend working on helping me. His response this morning was;- "I´m not surprised you found info on how much to pay but not how! That´s typical Italian..... However, for your info we are still waiting for our fiscal adviser to come back to us telling us how much to pay and how!!! Furthermore, just for your info, the new law has been drawn in such terrible way that, even if you pay with a 12 months delay, the maximum fine should be in the region of about 5 Euro!!! I will update you before the 16th ....." He has found something on my comune's website - apparently as a foreigner I must pay by bank transfer - [2 payments, one, for half,to the government and another half to the comune], and probably can only pay half of the total in June and another half in December [4 Transfer charges!] He's getting clarification from the comune [if the respond] Hey Ho!

You can find the F24 form when you log on to your Italian bank, fill it in on line and the money comes out of your account. If you make any mistakes it tells you where...magic!! I can't believe how little it is for a Prima Casa compared to the ICI. I don't see how this will bail out the Italian economy, or what all the fuss was about. If one has children it would seem they will owe you money.

Bankrupt!!! Just sorted out and paid the first installment ........... 7 Euro. Now to find out the final one in Oct, hopefully.

I really cannot believe all this, it's like Alice in Wonderland or a work by Kafka (who worked for a year at the Assicurazioni Generali, an Italian insurance company!), no wonder the euro is on the skids! If I owe the Comune or the State tax on my house in Italy then they should send me a BILL! They know how to calculate IMU or whatever they want to call it now, because, unlike personal income tax, it is calculated using data that is available to their staff. Why on earth should I do their work for them? If the penalties are derisory, and it seems to be the case that they are simply a very small interest charge, then I will simply await a bill. When and if it arrives then I can pay it online in the comfort of my home. I will not queue up in some dingy office and be told to go to another dingy office where there might be a lady who might be able to fill in the form and who will expect to be tipped, then go to a post office, where they are very rude, and wait in another queue. Madness....

Apparently, itis not 'their' job to collect taxes, it is YOUR job to pay taxes (!!!!!!!!!!!!) Yes, it could be handled a tiny bit better , there is a facility on the bank that I'm with (Banca della Marche) whereby you can fill the F24 in online (after you have done the calculations. I have to say, if someone sends me a bill and I feel it is valid I pay it. It is just the ridiculous mess of understanding the calculations and THEN..............adjusting it to accommodate their 'new' calculations which are to be made in September !! It's a good un !! S

7 euros Badger? I thought at first you must have left off a 0 somewhere but am guessing not...........it will cost at least 10 times more to process your payment - totally bizarre!

I pay IMU for various non-resident friends - their commercialista emails me the F24 and I make the payments online, which is quick and straightforward. So far, the two I have paid have been significantly higher than the amount paid for the June payment last year - 754 instead of 434, 856 instead of 492.

> I pay IMU for various non-resident friends - their commercialista emails me the F24 and I make the payments online.... How does one pay IMU online? Does one need a bank account in Italy? I'll be flying to Italy next week to sort out my IMU situation.

That sounds correct, Belvedere. There has been an increase. In any case, we feel that this adjustment was going to come sooner or later as property tax in Italy was lower than in other countries. For prima casa it is a bargain.

The two online banking systems that I use both have a section for payment using the F24 form. It pops up, with some of your details already entered. You then just have to add the additional information from the F24 supplied by the accountant and click on make payment. You can print the form for your records and you can also download and print a record of payment (quietanza di versamento) Gala, I agree that even the higher rate of IMU is a reasonable price to pay (especially when compared to property tax levels in the UK and California, for example) and those that I quoted are for luxury homes with non-resident owners so many home owners e.g. Badger will be paying much lower rates.

JaneFAB, its rendita cadrastale not value thats needed. Your commune should have the value, but it is also on your sale deeds from when you purchased the house. Steve

If youve done work on the house then you will have a new catastal value - get an updated visura which will give your new RC - use that in the IMU calculation.

Does anyone know how many square metres you have to have to be eligible. I have been told today that a friend doesn't have to pay it as her house is too small, mine is smaller than hers so I am hoping I am exempt as well. Also my dustbin tax is halved as the bin is more than 500m from my house (502m to be exact) works for me!

Thanks to all for the info posted regarding obtaining the forms, payment, etc. We went to our PO this AM (Licciana) and picked up their version of the F24. We were told "you have until July 8 to pay the first tranche" and that there are changes in the codici so we should go to the commune ("Patronato") to get the "new" info. Anyone else receive such instructions, true, false, or otherwise? thanks, Fred

What i did was to call the Comune who gave me the names and numbers of two agencies who will calculate IMU (at least in this part of Marche).They were CIA and Confartigianato. i called the second as they were nearer, they quoted me 10 euros and I gave them my and my wife's CF. We went there the next day, the guy worked out our IMU (having got all the catastal info from the comune as I had none here in Italy- we are non-resident)and didn't even charge as he knew someone who we knew blah blah.. So far so good. BUT we have to pay about THREE times our old ICI! Can this be right?? How much more are others paying on seconda casa?

Our commercatista works it out and submits for an extra 20e fee, but probably only of any use if you are paying Italian tax.

We are resident in the UK but have an apartment in Italy and when we were there the other week I had expected to find a bill for the IMU, in the way that the council tax bill arrives without fail every year over here. However, there was nothing, so I starting to look into it and had a slight panic attack last week when I read in the local paper online that the deadline for submitting and paying your IMU tax is 18th June. Things got better when I found a very useful site for information and calculation of the IMU: http://www.altroconsumo.it/casa-energia/imposte-e-tasse/news/imu-quanto-dovrai-pagare You only need to know the rendita catastale to be able to use the calculation, and this was on our purchase documents. The site also shows you exactly what to put on the F24 form. I then went to the Agenzia Entrate site, only to find that whilst it is possible to pay online, it is not possible to pay by credit card (how helpful is that?). You can pay if you have an Italian current account at one of an enormous list of banks, but you have to register on the site and in order to do that, they will give you half your PIN number online and send the other half by post to your Italian address within 15 days...! So, I know how much we have to pay and we have a current account in Italy, but how do we pay the Agenzia Entrate? If we just do a bank transfer, what account do we send it to and how do we attach the completed F24 form? Or shall we just wait until a friend is going over to our apartment in early July and ask him to go to the Post Office and pay it in return for using our apartment for a week??? Any ideas, particularly those I can action in the next week, would be most gratefully received. I can't imagine we are the only ones in this situation. MONICA

Monica, if you have online banking with your italian account you should be able to fill in the F24 on your bank site online and pay in that way, with no need to register with the Agenzia Entrate. Steve

Thanks very much, Steve. I have just accomplished what was looking like a seemingly impossible task. I went onto our online bank account, selected IMU, there was the form, I entered all the info I had obtained from the other site and pressed the INVIA button. I have printed out the receipt, but apparently it will be transferred by 15th June. Three days in hand! Wow - just made it!

IMU - F24 and calculations

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